Hi! So I''ve been to a Rails talk yesterday here, done by the guys at b-simple (http://www.b-simple.de/). One of the things that jumped my mind later on though was: it seemed like a lot of people thought of Rails as a Visual Basic for the web. I guess that''s because the use of scaffolding was quite heavy in the talk/demo. But I think that''s alright, I mean, you can''t cover everything about Rails in such a short talk and with scaffolding you can show results pretty quickly. Like I said, the problem is just that people thought that that''s it, Rails isn''t capable of much more than just the scaffoldish stuff. I thought to clarify that, maybe it''s a good idea to show some bigger real world applications in talks/demos. Problem is that sometimes there is no internet connection where the presentation are held. So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can use? Yay or Nay? Ciao! Florian
On Oct 20, 2005, at 4:24 AM, Florian Weber wrote:> So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice > Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can use? Yay > or Nay?I think there is definite value here. Instead of (or perhaps in addition to) a brief 10 minute demo that relies on scaffolding, it would be really neat to have a longer video that demonstrates starting an app with migrations, implementing a pre-written HTML mock- up, an RSS feed, and so forth. If anyone would be willing to collaborate on a script for it, I''d be willing to create the demo (or help create the demo). - Jamis
On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Jamis Buck wrote:> On Oct 20, 2005, at 4:24 AM, Florian Weber wrote: > >> So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice >> Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can use? Yay >> or Nay? > > I think there is definite value here. Instead of (or perhaps in > addition to) a brief 10 minute demo that relies on scaffolding, it > would be really neat to have a longer video that demonstrates starting > an app with migrations, implementing a pre-written HTML mock-up, an > RSS feed, and so forth. > > If anyone would be willing to collaborate on a script for it, I''d be > willing to create the demo (or help create the demo). > > - JamisCreating videos showing how to do specific things is one of the things I wanted to add to the podcast ("screencast" them) but never had the time to do. I think a longer more advanced video would be great, as well as shorter videos with a very specific target. As an example, I think a migrations tutorial video would be able to stand on its own. Given my insanely short attention, I particularly would like to see both the longer videos as well as being able to download just parts of it that I''m interested in. Anything longer than about 15 minutes starts to bore me if there are no explosions or nudity (maybe we could work those in?). So, video samplers/tutorials are an awesome idea and I''m willing to help out, though I don''t have the time available to drive the project (just stating that up front to avoid the "do investigate" delegation command ;). -- Scott Barron Lunchbox Software http://lunchboxsoftware.com http://lunchroom.lunchboxsoftware.com http://rubyi.st
Sounds like a great idea too! But I also meant showing the bigger Rails apps (all the 37signals stuff, 43things, Odeo, etc). Doesn''t have to be a lot, just something short people doing presentations to developers, that have absolutely no idea what Rails is, can use to illustrate that Rails is so much more than just the scaffolding stuff. For sure they could just show the apps in the browser, but sometimes there is just no internet connection.
On Oct 20, 2005, at 8:43 AM, Scott Barron wrote:> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Jamis Buck wrote: > >> On Oct 20, 2005, at 4:24 AM, Florian Weber wrote: >> >>> So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice >>> Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can >>> use? Yay >>> or Nay? >>> >> >> I think there is definite value here. Instead of (or perhaps in >> addition to) a brief 10 minute demo that relies on scaffolding, it >> would be really neat to have a longer video that demonstrates >> starting an app with migrations, implementing a pre-written HTML >> mock-up, an RSS feed, and so forth. >> >> If anyone would be willing to collaborate on a script for it, I''d >> be willing to create the demo (or help create the demo). >> >> - Jamis >> > > Creating videos showing how to do specific things is one of the > things I wanted to add to the podcast ("screencast" them) but never > had the time to do. I think a longer more advanced video would be > great, as well as shorter videos with a very specific target. As > an example, I think a migrations tutorial video would be able to > stand on its own. Given my insanely short attention, I > particularly would like to see both the longer videos as well as > being able to download just parts of it that I''m interested in. > Anything longer than about 15 minutes starts to bore me if there > are no explosions or nudity (maybe we could work those in?). > > So, video samplers/tutorials are an awesome idea and I''m willing to > help out, though I don''t have the time available to drive the > project (just stating that up front to avoid the "do investigate" > delegation command ;)./me smells a plugin... - Jamis
On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:43 AM, Scott Barron wrote:> > On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Jamis Buck wrote: > > >> On Oct 20, 2005, at 4:24 AM, Florian Weber wrote: >> >> >>> So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice >>> Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can >>> use? Yay >>> or Nay? >>> >> >> I think there is definite value here. Instead of (or perhaps in >> addition to) a brief 10 minute demo that relies on scaffolding, it >> would be really neat to have a longer video that demonstrates >> starting an app with migrations, implementing a pre-written HTML >> mock-up, an RSS feed, and so forth. >> >> If anyone would be willing to collaborate on a script for it, I''d >> be willing to create the demo (or help create the demo). >> >> - Jamis >> > > Creating videos showing how to do specific things is one of the > things I wanted to add to the podcast ("screencast" them) but never > had the time to do. I think a longer more advanced video would be > great, as well as shorter videos with a very specific target. As > an example, I think a migrations tutorial video would be able to > stand on its own. Given my insanely short attention, I > particularly would like to see both the longer videos as well as > being able to download just parts of it that I''m interested in. > Anything longer than about 15 minutes starts to bore me if there > are no explosions or nudity (maybe we could work those in?). > > So, video samplers/tutorials are an awesome idea and I''m willing to > help out, though I don''t have the time available to drive the > project (just stating that up front to avoid the "do investigate" > delegation command ;). > >Hey fellas. I am all for this as well. Since Geoff and I have taken over the podcasts I am sure we would both heartily support doing this. It''s something I have wanted to do even before this, so if you want to start a discussion about which kinds of videos would be useful, and how to narrate/script them, I''d like to help. Just to throw a few ideas in to start: 1. Rails for managers Intro to Rails, maybe briefly show code to illustrate brevity (as some are likely familiar superficially with code), but have a storyline setup re. history, development and growth, industry support, major public sites, testimonials from industry figures. 2. Rails intro w/o scaffolding Same basic walkthrough but without using the scaffolding heavily, possibly not at all. 3. Rails features Maybe some of the ''next step'' features once people get it running and make their blog. Ajax, generators, plugins, etc. 4. Rails / WebApp ethos Perhaps an intro to some of the ways that Web app development is a nice silky smooth process with the right philosophy (DRY, "Release Early, Release Often") and the right tools in place: Subversion, Damage Control, SwitchTower. 5. Rails concepts Walkthrough of MVC, ORM, other major conceptual hurdles. This is for developers that don''t use these design patterns. The existing Brazil video is good but it really only speaks to developers (Whoops!!). Just for kicks, why don''t we make a point to include the window titles so people can see what ''that text editor'' is. Matt (bricolage)> -- > Scott Barron > Lunchbox Software > http://lunchboxsoftware.com > http://lunchroom.lunchboxsoftware.com > http://rubyi.st > > _______________________________________________ > Rails-core mailing list > Rails-core@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails-core > >Matt Pelletier pelletierm@eastmedia.net
Okay, we''ve talked a bit more on irc about this earlier: It would be cool to pick a couple of the big Rails apps (Basecamp, Backpack, 43things, Odeo, etc) and show them from the user perspective. The best would be if somebody from the team who built the app could do the talking. Explain what the app is all about, how the development went with Rails and other little anecdotes. Doesn''t have to go super in depth though, a couple of minutes per app is probably good enough. What do you guys think about that?
On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Matt Pelletier wrote:> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:43 AM, Scott Barron wrote: > >> >> On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Jamis Buck wrote: >> >> >>> On Oct 20, 2005, at 4:24 AM, Florian Weber wrote: >>> >>> >>>> So what about doing a little video sampler of all the big and nice >>>> Rails apps out there, that the people doing presentations can use? >>>> Yay >>>> or Nay? >>>> >>> >>> I think there is definite value here. Instead of (or perhaps in >>> addition to) a brief 10 minute demo that relies on scaffolding, it >>> would be really neat to have a longer video that demonstrates >>> starting an app with migrations, implementing a pre-written HTML >>> mock-up, an RSS feed, and so forth. >>> >>> If anyone would be willing to collaborate on a script for it, I''d be >>> willing to create the demo (or help create the demo). >>> >>> - Jamis >>> >> >> Creating videos showing how to do specific things is one of the >> things I wanted to add to the podcast ("screencast" them) but never >> had the time to do. I think a longer more advanced video would be >> great, as well as shorter videos with a very specific target. As an >> example, I think a migrations tutorial video would be able to stand >> on its own. Given my insanely short attention, I particularly would >> like to see both the longer videos as well as being able to download >> just parts of it that I''m interested in. Anything longer than about >> 15 minutes starts to bore me if there are no explosions or nudity >> (maybe we could work those in?).This would be cool, and (as a clarification) would be a completely separate feed from the audio podcast. I guess some people still use Internet 1.0 or something.> Just for kicks, why don''t we make a point to include the window titles > so people can see what ''that text editor'' is.My personal opinion is that the videos all be shot full screen at 800x600, no higher. If they are not shot at full screen then all windows that appear in the video should be completely visible and the width or height of the camera should not exceed the 800x600 constraints. They should also be well rehearsed, edited, and (preferably though I suppose not necessarily required) contain an audio track. I strongly encourage the audio tracks, though. Sitting through even a 15 minute video with no audio track explaining what is going on is very boring. It''s also easier to keep up with what''s going on. I smell something ... but I don''t know if it''s a plugin ... -- Scott Barron Lunchbox Software http://lunchboxsoftware.com http://lunchroom.lunchboxsoftware.com http://rubyi.st
On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Florian Weber wrote:> Okay, we''ve talked a bit more on irc about this earlier:Oh, well I would be more than happy to join in there. Now if only I could get into the channel... :)> > It would be cool to pick a couple of the big Rails apps (Basecamp, > Backpack, 43things, Odeo, etc) and show them from the user > perspective. The best would be if somebody from the team who built the > app could do the talking. Explain what the app is all about, how the > development went with Rails and other little anecdotes. Doesn''t have > to go super in depth though, a couple of minutes per app is probably > good enough. > > What do you guys think about that?I agree that the ''what we did was...'' type of walkthroughs would be good, maybe as ''case study'' videos. Matt> _______________________________________________ > Rails-core mailing list > Rails-core@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails-core > >Matt Pelletier pelletierm@eastmedia.net
On Oct 20, 2005, at 2:52 PM, Scott Barron wrote:>>> >>> Creating videos showing how to do specific things is one of the >>> things I wanted to add to the podcast ("screencast" them) but >>> never had the time to do. I think a longer more advanced video >>> would be great, as well as shorter videos with a very specific >>> target. As an example, I think a migrations tutorial video would >>> be able to stand on its own. Given my insanely short attention, >>> I particularly would like to see both the longer videos as well >>> as being able to download just parts of it that I''m interested >>> in. Anything longer than about 15 minutes starts to bore me if >>> there are no explosions or nudity (maybe we could work those in?). >>> > > This would be cool, and (as a clarification) would be a completely > separate feed from the audio podcast. I guess some people still > use Internet 1.0 or something.Agreed. It would be good as a ''sister'' site. After these videos they can upgrade to Web 2.0.> > >> Just for kicks, why don''t we make a point to include the window >> titles so people can see what ''that text editor'' is. >> > > My personal opinion is that the videos all be shot full screen at > 800x600, no higher. If they are not shot at full screen then all > windows that appear in the video should be completely visible and > the width or height of the camera should not exceed the 800x600 > constraints. They should also be well rehearsed, edited, and > (preferably though I suppose not necessarily required) contain an > audio track. I strongly encourage the audio tracks, though. > Sitting through even a 15 minute video with no audio track > explaining what is going on is very boring. It''s also easier to > keep up with what''s going on.Agreed. 800x600, sound a requirement. I have a decent speaking voice (though it was hard to hear on the podcast with Obie) so I can narrate them if preferred. Who wants to do a Rails ''trailer''? "In a world of bloated frameworks and XML sit-ups... a man from the far reaches of Europe...". That might be a decent way to bring in the explosions and nudity.> > I smell something ... but I don''t know if it''s a plugin ...... Matt> > -- > Scott Barron > Lunchbox Software > http://lunchboxsoftware.com > http://lunchroom.lunchboxsoftware.com > http://rubyi.st > > _______________________________________________ > Rails-core mailing list > Rails-core@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails-core > >Matt Pelletier pelletierm@eastmedia.net
I''ve created a Writeboard for the Real World Rails Apps Movie idea: http://123.writeboard.com/edba8edc8aa7270d3 Password: realrails
So how long should the movie I''ve suggested be? 20 minutes?
Assuming we are talking about separate videos for each case study (i.e. 37s, 43things) I wouldn''t make them much longer than 15 each, unless you planned to actually get into some serious details. I think they should stay fairly topical, talk about approach, implementation, problems, team structure, site performance, tools, etc. If we are going to get more detailed than that re. a particular technology or technique it might be better served by a focused video. For example it would be cool if Jamis did one on 37s and during it talked about how/why he built switchtower, but the actual howto for ST would be better on its own in a Deployment video. How about we flesh out some storyboards? Anyone from any of those sites care to act as a sounding board? I''ll put more into the WriteBoard for this. Matt On Oct 23, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Florian Weber wrote:> So how long should the movie I''ve suggested be? > > 20 minutes? > _______________________________________________ > Rails-core mailing list > Rails-core@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails-core > >Matt Pelletier pelletierm@eastmedia.net
Just a pip: I concur! Videos, videos, videos. They''re one of the very top marketing tools that we can use to take over the world. Since the original video, lots of other people have been taking us up on it. I especially like http://rifers.org/theater. Lots of nice specifics. -- David Heinemeier Hansson http://www.loudthinking.com -- Broadcasting Brain http://www.basecamphq.com -- Online project management http://www.backpackit.com -- Personal information manager http://www.rubyonrails.com -- Web-application framework