Xen users - Jun 2009 - please help: Linux Kernel must be loaded before initrd

Hi,

One of my servers in a IDC in another country mysteriously went down this
morning, and when I contacted the IDC, I was told that XEN doesn''t boot
up,
as follows:

[QUOTE]
This is error message on the screen " Error 19: Linux Kernel must be loaded
before initrd"

Server is currently up with 2nd kernel.

Please check the grub.conf.
[/QUOTE]

Looking at grub.conf, I see the following:

#boot=/dev/hda
default=0
timeout=5
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu
title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
title CentOS (2.6.18-128.el5)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.el5.img







Then on another server, I see the following in grub.conf:
#boot=/dev/sda
default=0
timeout=5
splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu

title CentOS (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5
module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
module /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen.img

title CentOS (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5.img

title CentOS (2.6.18-8.el5)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-8.el5.img






On both kernels, I can see that initrd is loaded 2nd, as it should. So the
error doesn''t make sense. The BIG problem is that the server is on
another
continent, and their support is totally useless. I have actiall ordered a
new server, from another IDC and got it last night,  but need XEN to work on
this server in order to move the domU''s across.

Can anyone see anyting wrong with this? Google has revelaed the obvious,
that the initrd is incorrectly loaded, but according to the grub.conf that I
have, it should be loading properly.
-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


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http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Hello

 > kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
 > initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img

The first line load Xen and the second load Initrd ; where do you load 
Linux ?
You should have :
1 : kernel /path-to-xen
2 : module /path-to-linux
3 : module /path-to-initrd

Olivier

Rudi Ahlers a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> One of my servers in a IDC in another country mysteriously went down 
> this morning, and when I contacted the IDC, I was told that XEN 
> doesn''t boot up, as follows:
>
> [QUOTE]
> This is error message on the screen " Error 19: Linux Kernel must be 
> loaded before initrd"
>
> Server is currently up with 2nd kernel.
>
> Please check the grub.conf.
> [/QUOTE]
>
> Looking at grub.conf, I see the following:
>
> #boot=/dev/hda
> default=0
> timeout=5
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> hiddenmenu
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro 
> root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro 
> root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.el5)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
> ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.el5.img
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Then on another server, I see the following in grub.conf:
> #boot=/dev/sda
> default=0
> timeout=5
> splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> hiddenmenu
>
> title CentOS (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5
> module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
> module /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen.img
>
> title CentOS (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5.img
>
> title CentOS (2.6.18-8.el5)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-8.el5.img
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On both kernels, I can see that initrd is loaded 2nd, as it should. So 
> the error doesn''t make sense. The BIG problem is that the server
is on
> another continent, and their support is totally useless. I have 
> actiall ordered a new server, from another IDC and got it last night,  
> but need XEN to work on this server in order to move the domU''s
across.
>
> Can anyone see anyting wrong with this? Google has revelaed the 
> obvious, that the initrd is incorrectly loaded, but according to the 
> grub.conf that I have, it should be loading properly.
> -- 
> Kind Regards
> Rudi Ahlers
> CEO, SoftDux Hosting
> Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
> Office: 087 805 9573
> Cell: 082 554 7532
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Olivier B. <xen.list@daevel.fr> wrote:
> Hello
>
> > kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
> ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
> > initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
>
> The first line load Xen and the second load Initrd ; where do you load
> Linux ?
> You should have :
> 1 : kernel /path-to-xen
> 2 : module /path-to-linux
> 3 : module /path-to-initrd
>
> Olivier
>
>
Hi Olivier,

It is there:

title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
        root (hd0,0)
        kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
        initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img


The 3rd line says
kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe

-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

No... you haven''t got the "linux" loading, neither the
"modules" keywords.

On all my Debian masters, I have this :
 > kernel        /xen-3.2-1-amd64.gz dom0_mem=300000
 > module        /vmlinuz-2.6.26-2-xen-amd64 root=/dev/sda2 ro panic=5 
console=tty0
 > module        /initrd.img-2.6.26-2-xen-amd64

So : one "kernel" line with the "/xen" loading, then _two_
"module" line
with the "/vmlinuz" loading and the "/initrd.img" loading.

As for your second server :
 > kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5
 > module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/root
 > module /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen.img

Olivier

Rudi Ahlers a écrit :
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Olivier B. <xen.list@daevel.fr 
> <mailto:xen.list@daevel.fr>> wrote:
>
>     Hello
>
>
>     > kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro
>     root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>     > initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
>
>     The first line load Xen and the second load Initrd ; where do you
>     load Linux ?
>     You should have :
>     1 : kernel /path-to-xen
>     2 : module /path-to-linux
>     3 : module /path-to-initrd
>
>     Olivier
>
>
>
> Hi Olivier,
>
> It is there:
>
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro 
> root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
>  
>
> The 3rd line says
> kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 
> ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>
> -- 
> Kind Regards
> Rudi Ahlers
> CEO, SoftDux Hosting
> Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
> Office: 087 805 9573
> Cell: 082 554 7532
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Rudi Ahlers<rudiahlers@gmail.com>
wrote:
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
> ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
As Olivier pointed out, it should probably be something like this

title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
         root (hd0,0)
         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5
         module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen ro
root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
         module /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen.img

Note that vmlinuz and initrd uses "el5xen" version from kernel-xen
RPM, not the one from kernel RPM.

I''d also check the "ide0=noprobe" part. Is it really what you
want?
Usually it''s only necessary when some other driver should claim hda,
like in the case of HVM domU with PV kernel. Usually not necessary for
physical machine.

How did you setup Xen on this machine? "yum groupinstall
virtualization" should gave you a correct grub.conf stanza. Did you
perhaps only copy xen.gz and edit grub.conf manually?
> The BIG problem is that the server is on another
> continent, and their support is totally useless.
That''s why I insist on having remote console and power management on
my servers :)
HP''s ILO can be a livesaver.
> I have actiall ordered a
> new server, from another IDC and got it last night,  but need XEN to work
on
> this server in order to move the domU''s across.
Why?
For the purpose of MOVING domU it''s enough to have the physical
machine (dom0) running. Even normal (non-Xen) kernel is fine. You can
mount domU filesystem on dom0 if necessary.

-- 
Fajar

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha <fajar@fajar.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Rudi Ahlers<rudiahlers@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
> >         root (hd0,0)
> >         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5 ro
> root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01
> > ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
> >         initrd /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5.img
>
> As Olivier pointed out, it should probably be something like this

Thanx, I''ll make the changes as recommended.
>
>
> title CentOS (2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen)
>         root (hd0,0)
>         kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5
>          module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen ro
> root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 ide0=noprobe ide1=noprobe
>          module /initrd-2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen.img
>
> Note that vmlinuz and initrd uses "el5xen" version from
kernel-xen
> RPM, not the one from kernel RPM.
>
> I''d also check the "ide0=noprobe" part. Is it really
what you want?
> Usually it''s only necessary when some other driver should claim
hda,
> like in the case of HVM domU with PV kernel. Usually not necessary for
> physical machine.

I use HyperVM, which has setup everything for me, but I also had some
problems recently with the server, which ended up being a BIOS setting, todo
with the SATA / IDE options for the hard drives. So I don''t know if the
IDC
put those in there.

>
>
> How did you setup Xen on this machine? "yum groupinstall
> virtualization" should gave you a correct grub.conf stanza. Did you
> perhaps only copy xen.gz and edit grub.conf manually?
HyperVM sets is up, so I think it just issues "yum install xen", or
something, not sure

>
>
> > The BIG problem is that the server is on another
> > continent, and their support is totally useless.
>
> That''s why I insist on having remote console and power management
on
> my servers :)
> HP''s ILO can be a livesaver.

Sure, but if the IDC''s support is actually what the sales reps say it
is,
this won''t be necessary. In the 9 years that I''ve had servers
in 5 different
countries, I''ve never used a KVM-over-IP device. This is a new host
that I''m
trying out, and they''re really dissapointing.

>
>
> > I have actiall ordered a
> > new server, from another IDC and got it last night,  but need XEN to
work
> on
> > this server in order to move the domU''s across.
>
> Why?

The current host''s support is super pathetic, and not worth it for
productiosn servers.

>
> For the purpose of MOVING domU it''s enough to have the physical
> machine (dom0) running. Even normal (non-Xen) kernel is fine. You can
> mount domU filesystem on dom0 if necessary.

Yes, but 2 of the VPS''s has DB''s, which I''d like to
export instead of just
copying across.

I''ve managed to get XEN working again, but this server won''t
be online much
longer. As soon as the data is on the new server, this one goes offline.


>
>
> --
> Fajar
>


-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> Sure, but if the IDC''s support is actually what the sales reps say
it
> is, this won''t be necessary. In the 9 years that I''ve had
servers in 5
> different countries, I''ve never used a KVM-over-IP device. This is
a new
> host that I''m trying out, and they''re really
dissapointing.
We also do run hosting remotely, in 10 points of presence, on many
points of the globe, many being totally remote with the help of the data
center staff. Over the years, I found that using a KVM over IP is quite
necessary even with a very good data center support. It''s simply so
much
better to never have to ask anything to them and manage everything by
ourself. It''s been quite years now that we use only servers with
integrated KVMs. It only costs us 100 USD more per server, and one more
Ethernet port on the switch... For older servers, we managed to buy some
cheap KVM over IPs too.

If you had KVM over IPs, you wouldn''t have to actually WAIT for
support.
Just reboot, press e in grub to edit the config, b to boot, done...

Thomas

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On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> wrote:
> Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> > Sure, but if the IDC''s support is actually what the sales
reps say it
> > is, this won''t be necessary. In the 9 years that
I''ve had servers in 5
> > different countries, I''ve never used a KVM-over-IP device.
This is a new
> > host that I''m trying out, and they''re really
dissapointing.
>
> We also do run hosting remotely, in 10 points of presence, on many
> points of the globe, many being totally remote with the help of the data
> center staff. Over the years, I found that using a KVM over IP is quite
> necessary even with a very good data center support. It''s simply
so much
> better to never have to ask anything to them and manage everything by
> ourself. It''s been quite years now that we use only servers with
> integrated KVMs. It only costs us 100 USD more per server, and one more
> Ethernet port on the switch... For older servers, we managed to buy some
> cheap KVM over IPs too.
>
> If you had KVM over IPs, you wouldn''t have to actually WAIT for
support.
> Just reboot, press e in grub to edit the config, b to boot, done...
>
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
>
Hi Thomas,

I do agree that a KVM is a good option, but also found that a properly
configured server never needs it.

But the more important thing is that I travel a lot, and when I need to have
something done, I can just email the support department at the various
IDC''s, and they take care of everything for me. So, where I save money
on
the KVM, I pay it for server management, and this also cuts down support
costs on my side a bit. But then the IDC needs to have good support. I found
out the hard way that this one doesn''t have good support. $400 later!
But,
needless to say, the new server is up, most of the VPS''s are
transferred,
and I''ve cancelled the old one already.


-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> I do agree that a KVM is a good option, but also found that a properly
> configured server never needs it.
ANY server ALWAYS need it. Simply because it can fail and you might need
to access the BIOS to disable an HDD, or simply reboot the server, or
again boot on a diagnostic server. Now that I use KVMs everywhere, I
just feel I''m BLIND when I don''t have one, and I hate the
feeling.
> So, where I save
> money on the KVM, I pay it for server management, and this also cuts
> down support costs on my side a bit.
What saving are we talking about here? 100 USD per server wont make your
accountant have a heart attack ... But loosing precious time can make
your customers run away.

Thomas

P.S: PLEASE, do NOT Cc: when replying. This is just plain wrong (by
default you should never do this), and anyway, I''m registered to the
list.


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On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> wrote:
> Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > I do agree that a KVM is a good option, but also found that a properly
> > configured server never needs it.
>
> ANY server ALWAYS need it. Simply because it can fail and you might need
> to access the BIOS to disable an HDD, or simply reboot the server, or
> again boot on a diagnostic server. Now that I use KVMs everywhere, I
> just feel I''m BLIND when I don''t have one, and I hate the
feeling.

Well, each to his own, I suppose :) I don''t really sit and work on
servers
every moment of the day :)

>
>
> > So, where I save
> > money on the KVM, I pay it for server management, and this also cuts
> > down support costs on my side a bit.
>
> What saving are we talking about here? 100 USD per server wont make your
> accountant have a heart attack ... But loosing precious time can make
> your customers run away.

Well, with a KVM, I meant that I would need to sit and fix the problem, or
pay a tech''s  salary to sit and fix the problem. It''s more
than often
cheaper to pay the IDC to manage the servers, since time is valuable to me.

>
>
> Thomas
>
> P.S: PLEASE, do NOT Cc: when replying. This is just plain wrong (by
> default you should never do this), and anyway, I''m registered to
the list.
>
Please don''t take offense in this, my gmail account replies to all, by
default.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>

-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Rudi Ahlers wrote:
>  > I do agree that a KVM is a good option, but also found that a
properly
>>  configured server never needs it.
>
>>ANY server ALWAYS need it. Simply because it can fail and you might need
>>to access the BIOS to disable an HDD, or simply reboot the server, or
>>again boot on a diagnostic server. Now that I use KVMs everywhere, I
>>just feel I''m BLIND when I don''t have one, and I hate
the feeling.
>
>Well, each to his own, I suppose :) I don''t really sit and work on 
>servers every moment of the day :)
It''s not something you sit at very much at all. We''ve just
rebuilt
the server room at work, and although we''ve got lots of stuff 
virtualised (so virtual desktops and stuff), we''ve still put in a KVM 
so we can access the consoles of any box. We don''t use it much, in 
fact it can go many weeks without being used, but when it is used ... 
it''s essential.

I couldn''t imagine not having the option of getting at the server
console.
>>What saving are we talking about here? 100 USD per server wont make your
>>accountant have a heart attack ... But loosing precious time can make
>>your customers run away.
>
>Well, with a KVM, I meant that I would need to sit and fix the 
>problem, or pay a tech''s  salary to sit and fix the problem.
It''s
>more than often cheaper to pay the IDC to manage the servers, since 
>time is valuable to me.
Time is valuable to everyone. The question is, have you actually 
saved anything by using the hosting providers support staff ? Rather 
than access the server and see for yourself, you''ve had to instruct 
them to do something, wait for them to respond, and then work out 
what the results mean.

In this case, you''ve come to this list for advice, and then you have 
to go back to the hosting support staff, explain to them what to do, 
and wait to find out what''s happened.

If it costs you income (either directly from discounting customers 
hosting fees, or indirectly from losing customer goodwill and 
possibly losing their custom) then the time taken has probably cost 
more than adding remote access would have cost.

That''s my 2d worth on the subject.

Anyway, it''s your hosting not ours - so your choice.


-- 
Simon Hobson

Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.

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On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Simon Hobson
<linux@thehobsons.co.uk>wrote:
> Rudi Ahlers wrote:
>
>   > I do agree that a KVM is a good option, but also found that a
properly
>>
>>>  configured server never needs it.
>>>
>>
>>  ANY server ALWAYS need it. Simply because it can fail and you might
need
>>> to access the BIOS to disable an HDD, or simply reboot the server,
or
>>> again boot on a diagnostic server. Now that I use KVMs everywhere,
I
>>> just feel I''m BLIND when I don''t have one, and I
hate the feeling.
>>>
>>
>> Well, each to his own, I suppose :) I don''t really sit and
work on servers
>> every moment of the day :)
>>
>
> It''s not something you sit at very much at all. We''ve
just rebuilt the
> server room at work, and although we''ve got lots of stuff
virtualised (so
> virtual desktops and stuff), we''ve still put in a KVM so we can
access the
> consoles of any box. We don''t use it much, in fact it can go many
weeks
> without being used, but when it is used ... it''s essential.
>
> I couldn''t imagine not having the option of getting at the server
console.
>
>  What saving are we talking about here? 100 USD per server wont make your
>>> accountant have a heart attack ... But loosing precious time can
make
>>> your customers run away.
>>>
>>
>> Well, with a KVM, I meant that I would need to sit and fix the problem,
or
>> pay a tech''s  salary to sit and fix the problem. It''s
more than often
>> cheaper to pay the IDC to manage the servers, since time is valuable to
me.
>>
>
> Time is valuable to everyone. The question is, have you actually saved
> anything by using the hosting providers support staff ? Rather than access
> the server and see for yourself, you''ve had to instruct them to do
> something, wait for them to respond, and then work out what the results
> mean.

Definitely :) This is a isolated case. But many, many of my other servers,
worldwide, run without every seen a KVM. And very few of them ever had a
hardware issues that would ever have required a KVM. I tend to upgrade /
replace servers long before the hardware even gets a chance to get old
enough to use a KVM to diagnose. I can SSH into any server and do whatever I
need to.

So, for the few odd times where I needed it, I relied on IDC support staff
to sort it out. And with the other data centers, the help I get is
excellent. They are all onsite ( I don''t use a reseller / colo host),
and
staff can normally get to the server within minutes and sort the problem
out, if there is any.

This particular IDC don''t have KVM rental options, and theyr staff
takes a
very very LONG (sometimes 2 days)  to respond to tickets.  I read good
things about their network and thought I''d give them a try, but I have
since
cancelled the server, and moved all the data onto a new server in a a
different IDC.


>
>
> In this case, you''ve come to this list for advice, and then you
have to go
> back to the hosting support staff, explain to them what to do, and wait to
> find out what''s happened.

Sure, but with a data centre that doesn''t offer quick support, I had
to.

>
>
> If it costs you income (either directly from discounting customers hosting
> fees, or indirectly from losing customer goodwill and possibly losing their
> custom) then the time taken has probably cost more than adding remote
access
> would have cost.

With my other servers, in other data centers, I''ve never had to use a
KVM.
If / when a server actually had hardware problems, I could count on the
support staff to fix it. So, for the same price as a KVM that didn''t
get
used, I could have added more RAM / CPU / HDD / etc which could be used ;)

>
>
> That''s my 2d worth on the subject.
>
> Anyway, it''s your hosting not ours - so your choice.
>
>
> --
> Simon Hobson
>
> Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed
> author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as
> Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>


-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
CEO, SoftDux Hosting
Web: http://www.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532


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Rudi Ahlers <rudiahlers@gmail.com> writes:
> Definitely :) This is a isolated case. But many, many of my other servers,
> worldwide, run without every seen a KVM. And very few of them ever had a
> hardware issues that would ever have required a KVM. I tend to upgrade /
> replace servers long before the hardware even gets a chance to get old
> enough to use a KVM to diagnose. I can SSH into any server and do whatever
I
> need to.
A serial console is far superior to a KVM.  Ok, so 
the kernel panicked last night, the box rebooted and it''s fine now.   
how do you tell what went wrong?   If you have a logging serial console, 
you have the backtrace right there.   If you have a KVM, you are out
of luck.    The data center guys are going to shrug and say it''s
working
fine now.  You want I take it offline and run memtest?  well, if it was 
an oom-killer problem, you''ve just taken an additional few hours
downtime,
chasing the wrong problem, when the real problem would have been obvious,
if you sprang for another $10 in parts. 

If a server reboots and I don''t know why, that server gets taken out of
production.   unclean reboots on your Xen0 are quite expensive.  

A serial console is next to free.   I give a port away with every U I 
rent out.   You can get a used 32-port Cyclades on ebay for around $300, 
or if you are even cheaper, it''s simple enough to use the buddy system 
(server A has the console for server B, server B has the console for server
A... you are good as long as they don''t both fail at the same time.)

I know I sound a bit... ticked.  but I can''t count the number of times
a
client has asked me to figure out why a server rebooted last night (a 
reasonable request)  only to find that they don''t have a logging 
serial console.   Half the time they have DRAC, which can be configured as
a serial console or as a kvm, but they have it setup as a kvm!  that means
they blew $300 extra, and now I can''t help them anyway.


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