I have a question about Ogg. (which, ironically, means i'm posting to the wrong list. I don't know of an Ogg list though, and if i'm posting to the wrong list, please inform and forgive me) A while back I read how some of the developers had added MIDI support to the Ogg stream format. While just in early stages, this reminded me of a thought that had been passing through my mind before. What formats does Ogg intend to support? I know that there's work on Ogg Tarkin going on. But what about putting a plain wave file into the Ogg framework? Or, even better, ressurecting Ogg Squish. Many people, when posting audio samples, include the Vorbis file (of course) and then a wave file. Then other users tell them to put into flac format, to save space. Why couldn't flac be integrated into Ogg? Since Ogg Squish is dead, what about Ogg Flac? In fact, i seem to remember rumblings about this a long time ago. From what I understand, most of the work right now with Vorbis is going into fine tuning the lossy compression codec so that it sounds the best it can. All the bitstream formatting and fucntional details are pretty much solid and in a production state. Doesn't this mean that a working product, like flac, could be integrated into the Ogg framework without too much trouble? I think this would be a good idea, and pretty cool, too. It would unify the tools and players. For example, in Winamp or XMMS, you'd only need an Ogg plugin to play back wav's, flac's, vorbis's, midi's. And you'd only need one encoder to do this as well. In Grip (or some other tool) you'd just pass a '-flac' switch and you'd have lossless instead of lossy Ogg audio files. Not to mention you could tag these files in the same way that you can tag Vorbis files, which is pretty useful in itself. (this can be done, right?) Of course, all this involves work that's above and beyond my abilities, unfortunately, so i'm really asking you guys to do more work than you already are doing. (hopefully i'll learn this stuff in the future, but for now...) Anyways, i got a little long winded there, but thanks for listening. Jonathan Stewart the first one of my friends on the Ogg Vorbis bandwagon, and proud of it! --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>What formats does Ogg intend to support? I know that there's work on >Ogg Tarkin going on. But what about putting a plain wave file into the >Ogg framework? Or, even better, ressurecting Ogg Squish. Many people, >when posting audio samples, include the Vorbis file (of course) and then >a wave file. Then other users tell them to put into flac format, to >save space. Why couldn't flac be integrated into Ogg? Since Ogg Squish >is dead, what about Ogg Flac? In fact, i seem to remember rumblings >about this a long time ago.The long term goal is for ogg to be a generic media container format in the same way as riff (avi/wav), qt, and so on are. Except better, hopefully ;-) In the short term, vorbis is already supported, and Jack just recently finished his vorbis+midi work. One or more video formats will be supported at some point. Various people want to get MNG support done soon, tarkin will hopefully be a reality at some point, and several people have suggested putting on2's vp3 codec into ogg, though nobody has started doing so that I know of. There are specific plans to resurrect Squish after vorbis 1.0 is done, and make it work in ogg. Doing something similar with flac would also be possible, I suppose.> > From what I understand, most of the work right now with Vorbis is going >into fine tuning the lossy compression codec so that it sounds the best >it can. All the bitstream formatting and fucntional details are pretty >much solid and in a production state. Doesn't this mean that a working >product, like flac, could be integrated into the Ogg framework without >too much trouble?Yes, but you need player support too, and so on. It's not trivial, but it isn't that hard either.> >I think this would be a good idea, and pretty cool, too. It would unify >the tools and players. For example, in Winamp or XMMS, you'd only need >an Ogg plugin to play back wav's, flac's, vorbis's, midi's. And you'd >only need one encoder to do this as well. In Grip (or some other tool) >you'd just pass a '-flac' switch and you'd have lossless instead of >lossy Ogg audio files. Not to mention you could tag these files in the >same way that you can tag Vorbis files, which is pretty useful in >itself. (this can be done, right?)Vorbis's tag system is part of the vorbis format, not part of the ogg format. However, it's reasonable to assume that codecs used in ogg will support a similar or identical system, if we have control of the format. Michael --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 12:03 , Jonathan Stewart wrote:> What formats does Ogg intend to support? I know that there's work on > Ogg Tarkin going on. But what about putting a plain wave file into the > Ogg framework?Just to add to what michael said, I think having an uncompressed or lossless audio format for ogg will be a useful thing...mostly for video from my point of view. MNG + lossless audio + ogg would make a nice open format for video editing/master distribution. Of course you can easily think of lots of ways to wrap pcm in ogg, but so far there's been no real need. Getting to a place where we can afford lossless compression on both the audio in video might be an interesting thing. -r --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 12:03 , Jonathan Stewart wrote:> What formats does Ogg intend to support? I know that there's work on > Ogg Tarkin going on. But what about putting a plain wave file into the > Ogg framework?Just to add to what michael said, I think having an uncompressed or lossless audio format for ogg will be a useful thing...mostly for video from my point of view. MNG + lossless audio + ogg would make a nice open format for video editing/master distribution. Of course you can easily think of lots of ways to wrap pcm in ogg, but so far there's been no real need. Getting to a place where we can afford lossless compression on both the audio in video might be an interesting thing. -r --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.