Rails spinoffs - Mar 2006 - rant on browser makers (was something about updating TD''s)

> Oh is Gecko == Mozilla? Oh well, can''t keep them straight. As far
as
I''m
> concerned there are only 2 browsers worth developing for, IE6 and FF >
> 1.07.
Remove IE 6 and I agree, hahahaha.  Actually, I hate Mozilla''s box
model
(I know it''s the w3c recommended one, but it''s flawed.  Width
and height
should include padding and borders.  When I say a box is 2 feet wide, I
don''t mean if you subtract the box walls and the foam. /end rant).  I
almost want to like Opera, but after spending an hour trying to figure
out why doing this doesn''t work in Opera, I now am extremely leery of
it:

textarea.value = ''something'';
textarea.style.visibility = ''hidden'';
... more code ...
textarea.style.visibility = ''visible'';
textarea.value = ''something else'';

Whoops... the value was not changed.  WTF?!!  I ended up creating a new
textarea and replacing the old one with it before I set the value, but
only for Opera, as the other browsers all work fine.  
> Yea.. Stupid browser makers. Wish we could pull them all into the town
> square for a good flogging.
Heh.  I do realize that I''m a bit hypocritical complaining about them
when I could contribute to Mozilla, but our ''modern'' browsers
are years
behind where they should be.  The stuff they''re just getting to
should''ve been standard fare years ago.  They spend all this time
implementing neato stuff like the canvas element, which in reality is
useless to the majority of site builders out there.  But look, we can
make Doom in javascript!!!  Meanwhile, we still have to use fandangled
javascript methods to do simple animations, dragging/dropping, required
field checking, rounded corners, etc, etc.  Those should''ve been
implemented in the browser (or even in the standard in some cases) years
ago.  As much as I dislike Microsoft, I think the w3c should''ve picked
up on their filter concept.  Maybe changed the syntax or whatever, but I
want css gradients, opacity, blurring, drop-shadows, etc, etc (not sure
IE does all of those).  I''ve wanted them for years, and I
don''t think
I''m in the minority.

Anyhoo, sorry if I seem whiny today; I need a good rant now and again to
feel better.  I must need a nap or something :)

Greg

Amen and preach on!

My philosophy has always been "develop for FF, fix IE". But if I could
pick
one thing that''s the stupidest thing implemented in FF, its exactly
that box
problem. Ever try making a div fill the top 30 pixels of the window and have
a width of 100%? ARGH! Its next to impossible to get it working nicely in FF
and IE simultaneously. That''s one case where IE at least does the
reasonable
thing..FF always ends up being too wide.

Ugh, who''s in charge of this idiocy...when we end up with
"conditional
comments", surely someone must have said "hang on a second, maybe
there''s a
bigger issue here"?

<sigh>

/end rant

Man, that did feel good. Sorry to anyone on the list who really doesn''t
care
bout this :-D

-Jerod

On 3/1/06, Gregory Hill <Gregory_Hill-l9nu40+TWxQ@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> > Oh is Gecko == Mozilla? Oh well, can''t keep them straight. As
far as
> I''m
> > concerned there are only 2 browsers worth developing for, IE6 and FF
>
> > 1.07.
>
> Remove IE 6 and I agree, hahahaha.  Actually, I hate Mozilla''s box
model
> (I know it''s the w3c recommended one, but it''s flawed. 
Width and height
> should include padding and borders.  When I say a box is 2 feet wide, I
> don''t mean if you subtract the box walls and the foam. /end rant).
I
> almost want to like Opera, but after spending an hour trying to figure
> out why doing this doesn''t work in Opera, I now am extremely leery
of
> it:
>
> textarea.value = ''something'';
> textarea.style.visibility = ''hidden'';
> ... more code ...
> textarea.style.visibility = ''visible'';
> textarea.value = ''something else'';
>
> Whoops... the value was not changed.  WTF?!!  I ended up creating a new
> textarea and replacing the old one with it before I set the value, but
> only for Opera, as the other browsers all work fine.
>
> > Yea.. Stupid browser makers. Wish we could pull them all into the town
> > square for a good flogging.
>
> Heh.  I do realize that I''m a bit hypocritical complaining about
them
> when I could contribute to Mozilla, but our ''modern''
browsers are years
> behind where they should be.  The stuff they''re just getting to
> should''ve been standard fare years ago.  They spend all this time
> implementing neato stuff like the canvas element, which in reality is
> useless to the majority of site builders out there.  But look, we can
> make Doom in javascript!!!  Meanwhile, we still have to use fandangled
> javascript methods to do simple animations, dragging/dropping, required
> field checking, rounded corners, etc, etc.  Those should''ve been
> implemented in the browser (or even in the standard in some cases) years
> ago.  As much as I dislike Microsoft, I think the w3c should''ve
picked
> up on their filter concept.  Maybe changed the syntax or whatever, but I
> want css gradients, opacity, blurring, drop-shadows, etc, etc (not sure
> IE does all of those).  I''ve wanted them for years, and I
don''t think
> I''m in the minority.
>
> Anyhoo, sorry if I seem whiny today; I need a good rant now and again to
> feel better.  I must need a nap or something :)
>
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
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>

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[ On the W3C box model ]

Therefore css3 allows to switch the box-model.
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-ui/#box-sizing
I expect it to be usable in general web-design around 2017.

Here it''s develop for Safari, fix FF (if necessary, only in a few  
cases) and IE (there''s always something).

-Thomas


Am 02.03.2006 um 04:10 schrieb Jerod Venema:
> Amen and preach on!
>
> My philosophy has always been "develop for FF, fix IE".

Nice one Martin!

In case anyone''s interested, FF can be told to use the IE box model:

.exampleone {
	-moz-box-sizing: padding-box;
}

http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/CSS:-moz-box-sizing

-Jerod

On 3/2/06, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> Here it''s develop for Safari, fix FF (if necessary, only in a few
> cases) and IE (there''s always something).
>
> -Thomas
>
>
> Am 02.03.2006 um 04:10 schrieb Jerod Venema:
>
> > Amen and preach on!
> >
> > My philosophy has always been "develop for FF, fix IE".
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-spinoffs mailing list
> Rails-spinoffs-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails-spinoffs
>

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