I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says "Most of them are included in a standard install". Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Tom, I'm irritated as well. Your email should go to some suse mailing list, this is a suse problem, it has (almost) nothing to do with R. Unfortunately i can't help you (even if i wanted), because i don't want to read the suse manuals. But if you want to use suse you may consider reading them. Gabor On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 09:05:22PM +0200, Tom Backer Johnsen wrote:> I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about > the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use > Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The > next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the > wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing > programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. > > And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions > is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. > I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows > that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on > Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the > readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then > it says "Most of them are included in a standard install". Sigh. > Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have > and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I > wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. > > So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for > installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume > that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect > instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a > very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to > understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I > cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And > that is a pity, for a number of reasons. > > The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. > Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy > for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them > in the right place. > > And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the > installation. > > Tom > > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | > | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | > | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | > | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html-- Csardi Gabor <csardi at rmki.kfki.hu> MTA RMKI, ELTE TTK
FYI: Installing and runing R on Fedora Core 5, as I witnessed, could never be easier. I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then it says "Most of them are included in a standard install". Sigh. Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And that is a pity, for a number of reasons. The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them in the right place. And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the installation. Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Installing R on SuSE 10.0 may be less than trivial for a beginner (I ended up compiling GCC plus 3-4 other things). In case you lose your patience I'd suggest trying Mepis Linux: it's very easy to install and the package management GUI (Synaptic) is great. Installing R together with a bunch of R packages, courtesy of the Debian folks, is a breeze.> -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Tom > Backer Johnsen > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:05 PM > To: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: [R] I am surprised (and a little irritated) > > I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about > the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use > Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The > next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the > wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing > programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. > > And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions > is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. > I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows > that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on > Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the > readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then > it says "Most of them are included in a standard install". Sigh. > Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I > already have > and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I > wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. > > So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for > installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume > that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect > instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a > very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to > understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to > manage what I > cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And > that is a pity, for a number of reasons. > > The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. > Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy > for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them > in the right place. > > And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the > installation. > > Tom > > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | > | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | > | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | > | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide! > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >
Hi, I`m the one to blame for the readme :-) and for providing the rpms. If you encounter such big problems my readme sucks. But I'm open for critisism and will improve on the current situation for the release of R-2.3.0 next monday. It would have helped, if I got the error messages you saw. Now I just have to guess. I think you'll be able to find a step by step instruction by the end of the week on CRAN. Part of the problem is that R and Suse are moving targets. On the opensuse side there are packages, which are not on the CDs but in the online repositories that have to be downloaded seperately. Ranting alone won't help. Look here: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/178/42/ for some introductory material. You can add http://fawn.hsu-hh.de/~steuer/SL-10.0-OSS as installation source for R and ESS. That the installation procedure is different for any flavour of Linux than the one you know from windows should not surprise you. Whatever distribution you'll end up using: the time invested to learn the respective package management system will pay back. Feel free to ask any question on R on SuSE. I would be happy to send you the next readme for review. Regards, Detlef On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:05:22 +0200 Tom Backer Johnsen <backer at psych.uib.no> wrote:> I have started with using R on Windows, and I am really happy about > the system. Now, one of my other ambitions is to learn how to use > Linux, so yesterday I downloaded OpenSuse and installed that. The > next problem was to try to use R with Linux. And there I met the > wall. I've understood that RPM's are somewhat like installing > programs on Windows, so that was downloaded and started with YAST. > > And got some error messages about missing stuff. The first reactions > is surprise -- there must be an error in the installation procedure. > I have never (well, almost) met an installation procedure on Windows > that did not include everything needed. And the installation of R on > Windows was very smooth. Then I discover to my big surprise that the > readme file says that I need to have eight installed packages. Then > it says "Most of them are included in a standard install". Sigh. > Then the problem next is to find out which of the eight I already have > and which ones I need to locate somewhere. Where can I find them I > wonder. Somewhere on the net? And that is how far I got today. > > So, one of the complaints I have is that the instructions for > installing R on Linux are very cryptic, and to a large extent assume > that you already know Linux. Which I do not. And I expect > instructions on installing should be simple and clear. But I am a > very experienced computer user, so I really expect to be able to > understand instructions. I cannot expect my students to manage what I > cannot manage myself, so Linux is out, or at least Suse Linux. And > that is a pity, for a number of reasons. > > The second is just as much surprise at the installation procedure. > Under Windows there are any number of installers which make it easy > for a programmer to put together all the files needed and place them > in the right place. > > And simeone should get the OpenSuse people to include R in the > installation. > > Tom > > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | > | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | > | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | > | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | > +----------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html-- "Keinen Gedanken zweimal denken, au?er er ist sch?n." Unbekannte Quelle
Robert Baer wrote:> Even as you sit under seige, let me take this opportunity to thank > you (and ALL the other countless developers, maintainers and list > contributers) for the TIRELESS work you do to make R one of the most > robust open source projects I know about. We the 'end users'. are > indebted for your energies and talents in ways most of us can never > even contemplate. > > Thanks to you all for your service to the greater good, and for being > willing to step up and incrementally strive for excellence.Amen, brother!!! Try to imagine (just TRY IT!!!) getting a helpful, humble, ***practical*** response, like that from Detlef Steuer, from the Microsoft(dung) Monolith. cheers, Rolf Turner rolf at math.unb.ca
Gabor Csardi wrote:> So you don't want to read that manual after all? :)I did not say so, not at all. The point is that it is not very helpful to say "Read the manual" when the the problem is very much one of not knowing where to look in the manual. Instructions for installing on a particular distribution should be focused on the uninitiated, not the experiences users.> > The thing is that for Linux you cannot just develop a program which 'just > installs' or 'just works' on any Linux system. (Or even if you could do > that, it is not worth the effort.) This is because 'Linux' is just an > operating system kernel, shells, compilers, window managers, GUI's are NOT > part of it.I know. But it should be possible to do so for a few of the major distros. According to some of the responses, some of them even include R in the installation.> This is what Linux disributions are for. They are collections of software > containing both the kernel and the user tools (compilers, shells, R, etc.). > There are many thousends of linux distribution and they are not at all > compatible with each other. It might happen that R is packaged differently > in a distribution than in another, etc. This is a tough world, but also > gives you the freedom of choice, some people like it, some people don't. > > For a software package like R, it is absolutely impossible to ensure that it > can be installed cleanly without any problems on all the (say) two thousend > linux distributions. Usually the people who packaged the piece of software > (R in this case) for the specific distribution are the ones who can help you > with installation problems. (Not always, but very likely with your problem.) > And for most suse packages these people are the suse developers.I am not referring to 2000 distributions. I am referring to one of the most popular ones, SUSE.> > This is why i suggested to post to the suse list. But you got some useful > hints from helpful people here, so after all you are lucky. :)Yes, I am grateful (in the most part) for the responses, where Ditlef's one was in particular very constructive. But (a) I am interested in using R, (b) I want to try R on one of the major distributions of Linux (c) I do not succeed in doing so. What I wonder is then: How many others have made the same attempt, not succeeded, and then given up? Which I do not intend to do.> I might have overreacted this, but it is really irritating that you > just take the result of the really hard work of many people, the R software, > for free, and then complain about something which you could solve easily > just by searching on google or in the R mailing list archive, or reading the > suse manuals.Yes, I think you are being oversensitive. On the contrary, it is because I DO realize that there is an enormous effort involved in the development of R that I am surprised that the final step, making it available to users is so difficult in this particular case. That is, as far as I can see, something that is (or should be) of concern to the advocates of R (where I regard myself as included). That is the reason for my mail to the list. Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Detlef Steuer wrote:> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:51:57 +0200.....> Sometimes it is very hard to think of the questions a new user has, > if you do it yourself on a daily basis for years.I understand that very well. Now I can tell you that I used the info in the "Hacking OpenSuse" link you provided to the letter, and followed all the instructions in the paragraph with the heading "Adding sources to YaST". After that installing R from the R-base rpm was simple. It took a few minutes, but that does not matter. Evidently all the necessary packages were located on from the locations on the net and were installed automatically. So now R is installed and works. The only drawback I can think of is that you have to be online to install. Conclusion: Put something like the info from the link in the readme and other users of R can be recruited from the SUSE world. Thank you! Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Detlef: For your information. A few days ago I ordered SuSE 10, the version corresponding to the old "Professional". It arrived today, and was installed. When the R-base rpm was downloaded with Mozilla Firebird, it was only to open it when the download was finished, click the "install with YaST" button, and everything went smooth. I had to insert the DVD, where it looked like all the other components were found. So, most of the necessary modifications in the readme will refer to the OpenSuse version alone. The commercial version is very simple. Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Detlef Steuer wrote:> Hi again, >...> This new rpm R-base-2.3.0-beta should automatically resolve dependencies. At least it did so on my machine. I would be happy to get a report, if you try to install this one and find difficulties or success!. > Most important would be to report missing dependencies. As this is my first try to add those, I`m not sure having catched them all.I have not tried it yet, but when I think about it I think that you have resolved the dependencies part already in 2.2.1. When I had set up YaST according to the "hacking" link and then opened the R-base rpm file everything went smooth with no intervention on my part. Tom +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Tom Backer Johnsen, Psychometrics Unit, Faculty of Psychology | | University of Bergen, Christies gt. 12, N-5015 Bergen, NORWAY | | Tel : +47-5558-9185 Fax : +47-5558-9879 | | Email : backer at psych.uib.no URL : http://www.galton.uib.no/ | +----------------------------------------------------------------+