Saleem Abdulrasool via llvm-dev
2021-Sep-08 22:52 UTC
[llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows
Hello llvm-dev, One of the current limitations on LLVM on Windows is that you cannot use LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/llvm/tools/llvm-shlib/CMakeLists.txt#L14-L16 I am interested in trying to see if we can lift this limitation. There are others in the community that also seem to be interested in seeing LLVM being possible to use as a DLL on Windows and the topic does come up on the mailing lists every so often. When you build a distribution of a LLVM based toolchain currently, the result on Windows is ~2GiB for a trimmed down toolset. This is largely due to the static linking used for all the tools. I would like to be able to use the shared LLVM build for building a toolset on Windows. Unlike Unix platforms, the default on Windows is that all symbols are treated as `dso_local` (that is `-fvisibility-default=hidden`). Symbols which are meant to participate in dynamic linking are to be attributed as `__declspec(dllexport)` in the module and `__declspec(dllimport)` external to the module. This is similar to Unix platforms where `__attribute__((__visibility__(...)))` controls the same type of behaviour with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. For the case of distributions, it would remain valuable to minimize the number of shared objects to reduce the files that require to be shipped but also to minimize the number of cross-module calls which are not entirely free (i.e. PLT+GOT or IAT costs). At the same time, the number of possible labels which can be exposed from a single module on Windows is limited to 64K. Experience from MSys2 indicates that LLVM with all the backends is likely to exceed this count (with a subset of targets, the number already is close to 60K). This means that it may be that we would need two libraries on Windows. With the LLVM community being diverse, people often build on different platforms with different configurations, and I am concerned that adding more differences in how we build libraries complicates how maintainable LLVM is. I would suggest that we actually change the behavior of the Unix builds to match that of Windows by building with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. Although this is a change, it is not without value. By explicitly marking the interfaces which are vended by a library and making everything else internal, it does enable some potential optimization options for the compiler and linker (to be clear, I am not suggesting that this will have a guaranteed benefit, just that it can potentially enable additional opportunities for optimizations and size reductions). This should incidentally help static linking. In order to achieve this, we would need to have a module specific annotation to indicate what symbols are meant to be used outside of the module when built in a shared configuration. The same annotation would apply to all targets and is expected to be applied uniformly. This of course has a cost associated with it: the public interfaces would need to be decorated appropriately. However, by having the same behaviour on all the platforms, developers would not be impacted by the platform differences in their day-to-day development. The only time that developers would need to be aware of this is when they are working on the module boundary, that is, changes which do not change the API surface of LLVM would not need to consider the annotations. Concretely, what I believe is required to enable building with LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows is: - introduce module specific decoration (e.g. LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI, ...) to mark public interfaces of shared library modules - decorate all the public interfaces of the shared library modules with the new decoration - switching the builds to use `-fvisibility-default=hidden` by default I believe that these can be done mostly independently and staged in the order specified. Until the last phase, it would have no actual impact on the builds. However, by staging it, we could allow others to experiment with the option while it is under development, and allows for an easier path for switching the builds over. Although this would enable LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows, give us better uniformity between Windows and non-Windows platforms, potentially enable additional optimization benefits, improve binary sizes for a distribution of the toolchain (though less on Linux where distributors are already using the build configuration ignoring the official suggestions in the LLVM guides), and help with runtime costs of the toolchain (by making the core of the tools a shared library, the backing pages can now be shared across multiple instances), it is not entirely without downsides. The primary downsides that I see are: - it becomes less enticing to support both LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB and BUILD_SHARED_LIBS: while technically possible, interfaces will need to be decorated for both forms of the build - LLVM_DYLIB_COMPONENTS becomes less tractable: in theory it is possible to apply enough CPP magic to determine where a symbol is homed, but allowing a symbol to be homed in a shared or static library is significantly more complex - BUILD_SHARED_LIBS becomes more expensive to maintain: the decoration is per-module, which requires that we would need to decorate the symbols of each module with module specific annotations as well One argument that people make for BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is that it reduces the overall time build-test cycle. With the combination of lld, DWARF Fission, and LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB, I believe that most of the benefits still can be had. The cost of linking all the tools is amortized across the link of a single library, which while not as small as the a singular library, is offset by the following: - The LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB would not require the re-linking of all the libraries for each tool. - DWARF Fission would avoid the need to relink all of the DWARF information. - lld is faster than the gold and bfd linkers Header changes would still ripple through the system as before, requiring rebuilding the transitive closure. Source file changes do not have the same impact of course. For those would like a more concrete example of what a change like this may shape up into: https://reviews.llvm.org/D109192 contains `LLVMSupportExports.h` which has the expected structure for declaring the decoration macros with the rest of the change primarily being focused on applying the decoration. Please ignore the CMake changes as they are there to ensure that the CI validates this without changing the configuration and not intended to be part of the final version of the change. -- Saleem Abdulrasool compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20210908/e7690ec7/attachment.html>
Tom Stellard via llvm-dev
2021-Sep-08 23:52 UTC
[llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows
On 9/8/21 3:52 PM, Saleem Abdulrasool via llvm-dev wrote:> Hello llvm-dev, >In general, I am in favor of this change and think it would be a good improvement. A few comments below:> One of the current limitations on LLVM on Windows is that you cannot use LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/llvm/tools/llvm-shlib/CMakeLists.txt#L14-L16 <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/llvm/tools/llvm-shlib/CMakeLists.txt#L14-L16> I am interested in trying to see if we can lift this limitation. There are others in the community that also seem to be interested in seeing LLVM being possible to use as a DLL on Windows and the topic does come up on the mailing lists every so often. > > When you build a distribution of a LLVM based toolchain currently, the result on Windows is ~2GiB for a trimmed down toolset. This is largely due to the static linking used for all the tools. I would like to be able to use the shared LLVM build for building a toolset on Windows. > > Unlike Unix platforms, the default on Windows is that all symbols are treated as `dso_local` (that is `-fvisibility-default=hidden`). Symbols which are meant to participate in dynamic linking are to be attributed as `__declspec(dllexport)` in the module and `__declspec(dllimport)` external to the module. This is similar to Unix platforms where `__attribute__((__visibility__(...)))` controls the same type of behaviour with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. > > For the case of distributions, it would remain valuable to minimize the number of shared objects to reduce the files that require to be shipped but also to minimize the number of cross-module calls which are not entirely free (i.e. PLT+GOT or IAT costs). At the same time, the number of possible labels which can be exposed from a single module on Windows is limited to 64K. Experience from MSys2 indicates that LLVM with all the backends is likely to exceed this count (with a subset of targets, the number already is close to 60K). This means that it may be that we would need two libraries on Windows. >The backends only need to export a handful of symbols, so I don't think enabling more targets will have that big of impact on the number of exported symbols.> With the LLVM community being diverse, people often build on different platforms with different configurations, and I am concerned that adding more differences in how we build libraries complicates how maintainable LLVM is. I would suggest that we actually change the behavior of the Unix builds to match that of Windows by building with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. Although this is a change, it is not without value. By explicitly marking the interfaces which are vended by a library and making everything else internal, it does enable some potential optimization options for the compiler and linker (to be clear, I am not suggesting that this will have a guaranteed benefit, just that it can potentially enable additional opportunities for optimizations and size reductions). This should incidentally help static linking. > > In order to achieve this, we would need to have a module specific annotation to indicate what symbols are meant to be used outside of the module when built in a shared configuration. The same annotation would apply to all targets and is expected to be applied uniformly. This of course has a cost associated with it: the public interfaces would need to be decorated appropriately. However, by having the same behaviour on all the platforms, developers would not be impacted by the platform differences in their day-to-day development. The only time that developers would need to be aware of this is when they are working on the module boundary, that is, changes which do not change the API surface of LLVM would not need to consider the annotations. > > Concretely, what I believe is required to enable building with LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows is: > - introduce module specific decoration (e.g. LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI, ...) to mark public interfaces of shared library modules > - decorate all the public interfaces of the shared library modules with the new decoration > - switching the builds to use `-fvisibility-default=hidden` by default >My recommendation would be to start with a generic decoration (e.g. LLVM_EXPORTED_API) and decorate all the currently exported symbols (which currently is all of them except for the lib/Target symbols on Linux). This way you could switch to -fvisibility-default=hidden and it would have no impact on library users. I know it's tedious work, but you can split it up and recruit others (like me) to help make the changes. Once you have that working we can start trimming down the ABI and determine whether or not we actually need to have two libraries or not. If the full build with a few targets enabled is already under the limit, I think there is a good chance we can get a single library to work. The advantage of this approach is that you can make a lot of progress in a very non-invasive way.> I believe that these can be done mostly independently and staged in the order specified. Until the last phase, it would have no actual impact on the builds. However, by staging it, we could allow others to experiment with the option while it is under development, and allows for an easier path for switching the builds over. > > Although this would enable LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows, give us better uniformity between Windows and non-Windows platforms, potentially enable additional optimization benefits, improve binary sizes for a distribution of the toolchain (though less on Linux where distributors are already using the build configuration ignoring the official suggestions in the LLVM guides), and help with runtime costs of the toolchain (by making the core of the tools a shared library, the backing pages can now be shared across multiple instances), it is not entirely without downsides. The primary downsides that I see are: > - it becomes less enticing to support both LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB and BUILD_SHARED_LIBS: while technically possible, interfaces will need to be decorated for both forms of the buildI don't think we should make any changes to the BUILD_SHARED_LIBS build. This is intended for developer convenience only and not recommend for end users or distros[1]. Supporting BUILD_SHARED_LIBS will require annotating more of the API and create more work both initially and also in ongoing maintenance, and I don't think it is worth it. -Tom> - LLVM_DYLIB_COMPONENTS becomes less tractable: in theory it is possible to apply enough CPP magic to determine where a symbol is homed, but allowing a symbol to be homed in a shared or static library is significantly more complex > - BUILD_SHARED_LIBS becomes more expensive to maintain: the decoration is per-module, which requires that we would need to decorate the symbols of each module with module specific annotations as well > > One argument that people make for BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is that it reduces the overall time build-test cycle. With the combination of lld, DWARF Fission, and LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB, I believe that most of the benefits still can be had. The cost of linking all the tools is amortized across the link of a single library, which while not as small as the a singular library, is offset by the following: > - The LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB would not require the re-linking of all the libraries for each tool. > - DWARF Fission would avoid the need to relink all of the DWARF information. > - lld is faster than the gold and bfd linkers > > Header changes would still ripple through the system as before, requiring rebuilding the transitive closure. Source file changes do not have the same impact of course. > > For those would like a more concrete example of what a change like this may shape up into: https://reviews.llvm.org/D109192 <https://reviews.llvm.org/D109192> contains `LLVMSupportExports.h` which has the expected structure for declaring the decoration macros with the rest of the change primarily being focused on applying the decoration. Please ignore the CMake changes as they are there to ensure that the CI validates this without changing the configuration and not intended to be part of the final version of the change. >[1] https://llvm.org/docs/CMake.html#llvm-related-variables> -- > Saleem Abdulrasool > compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >
Peter Collingbourne via llvm-dev
2021-Sep-09 02:09 UTC
[llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows
Hi Saleem, I am concerned that your change will increase the maintenance burden for those of us who would prefer to develop without shared libraries. Since it is unclear a priori where the macros will be required, developers will need to build both with and without shared libraries in order to verify that they aren't breaking the build for shared library users -- in effect slowing down the development for folks who prefer to develop without shared libraries. I think your goal should be achievable without littering the code with macros. Perhaps on Windows you can achieve your goal with a variant of Leonard Chan's "busybox" proposal [1] with some adjustments to account for a lack of symlink support on Windows. Perhaps something like: - Create a <tool name>_main() entry point for each tool that does not use llvm::cl to parse options. - Create a llvm.dll in the bin directory that links together all the <tool name>_main() entry points. - Each tool <tool name>.exe consists of: int main() { <tool name>_main(); } - Tools that use llvm::cl will need to be linked with all of their code in the .exe for now. However, they can be incrementally switched away from llvm::cl and moved into llvm.dll. Peter [1] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-June/151321.html On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:52 PM Saleem Abdulrasool via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> Hello llvm-dev, > > One of the current limitations on LLVM on Windows is that you cannot use > LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB: > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/llvm/tools/llvm-shlib/CMakeLists.txt#L14-L16 > I am interested in trying to see if we can lift this limitation. There > are others in the community that also seem to be interested in seeing LLVM > being possible to use as a DLL on Windows and the topic does come up on the > mailing lists every so often. > > When you build a distribution of a LLVM based toolchain currently, the > result on Windows is ~2GiB for a trimmed down toolset. This is largely due > to the static linking used for all the tools. I would like to be able to > use the shared LLVM build for building a toolset on Windows. > > Unlike Unix platforms, the default on Windows is that all symbols are > treated as `dso_local` (that is `-fvisibility-default=hidden`). Symbols > which are meant to participate in dynamic linking are to be attributed as > `__declspec(dllexport)` in the module and `__declspec(dllimport)` external > to the module. This is similar to Unix platforms where > `__attribute__((__visibility__(...)))` controls the same type of behaviour > with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. > > For the case of distributions, it would remain valuable to minimize the > number of shared objects to reduce the files that require to be shipped but > also to minimize the number of cross-module calls which are not entirely > free (i.e. PLT+GOT or IAT costs). At the same time, the number of possible > labels which can be exposed from a single module on Windows is limited to > 64K. Experience from MSys2 indicates that LLVM with all the backends is > likely to exceed this count (with a subset of targets, the number already > is close to 60K). This means that it may be that we would need two > libraries on Windows. > > With the LLVM community being diverse, people often build on different > platforms with different configurations, and I am concerned that adding > more differences in how we build libraries complicates how maintainable > LLVM is. I would suggest that we actually change the behavior of the Unix > builds to match that of Windows by building with > `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. Although this is a change, it is not > without value. By explicitly marking the interfaces which are vended by a > library and making everything else internal, it does enable some potential > optimization options for the compiler and linker (to be clear, I am not > suggesting that this will have a guaranteed benefit, just that it can > potentially enable additional opportunities for optimizations and size > reductions). This should incidentally help static linking. > > In order to achieve this, we would need to have a module specific > annotation to indicate what symbols are meant to be used outside of the > module when built in a shared configuration. The same annotation would > apply to all targets and is expected to be applied uniformly. This of > course has a cost associated with it: the public interfaces would need to > be decorated appropriately. However, by having the same behaviour on all > the platforms, developers would not be impacted by the platform differences > in their day-to-day development. The only time that developers would need > to be aware of this is when they are working on the module boundary, that > is, changes which do not change the API surface of LLVM would not need to > consider the annotations. > > Concretely, what I believe is required to enable building with > LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows is: > - introduce module specific decoration (e.g. LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI, ...) to > mark public interfaces of shared library modules > - decorate all the public interfaces of the shared library modules with > the new decoration > - switching the builds to use `-fvisibility-default=hidden` by default > > I believe that these can be done mostly independently and staged in the > order specified. Until the last phase, it would have no actual impact on > the builds. However, by staging it, we could allow others to experiment > with the option while it is under development, and allows for an easier > path for switching the builds over. > > Although this would enable LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows, give us > better uniformity between Windows and non-Windows platforms, potentially > enable additional optimization benefits, improve binary sizes for a > distribution of the toolchain (though less on Linux where distributors are > already using the build configuration ignoring the official suggestions in > the LLVM guides), and help with runtime costs of the toolchain (by making > the core of the tools a shared library, the backing pages can now be shared > across multiple instances), it is not entirely without downsides. The > primary downsides that I see are: > - it becomes less enticing to support both LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB and > BUILD_SHARED_LIBS: while technically possible, interfaces will need to be > decorated for both forms of the build > - LLVM_DYLIB_COMPONENTS becomes less tractable: in theory it is possible > to apply enough CPP magic to determine where a symbol is homed, but > allowing a symbol to be homed in a shared or static library is > significantly more complex > - BUILD_SHARED_LIBS becomes more expensive to maintain: the decoration is > per-module, which requires that we would need to decorate the symbols of > each module with module specific annotations as well > > One argument that people make for BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is that it reduces the > overall time build-test cycle. With the combination of lld, DWARF Fission, > and LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB, I believe that most of the benefits still can be > had. The cost of linking all the tools is amortized across the link of a > single library, which while not as small as the a singular library, is > offset by the following: > - The LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB would not require the re-linking of all the > libraries for each tool. > - DWARF Fission would avoid the need to relink all of the DWARF > information. > - lld is faster than the gold and bfd linkers > > Header changes would still ripple through the system as before, requiring > rebuilding the transitive closure. Source file changes do not have the > same impact of course. > > For those would like a more concrete example of what a change like this > may shape up into: https://reviews.llvm.org/D109192 contains > `LLVMSupportExports.h` which has the expected structure for declaring the > decoration macros with the rest of the change primarily being focused on > applying the decoration. Please ignore the CMake changes as they are there > to ensure that the CI validates this without changing the configuration and > not intended to be part of the final version of the change. > > -- > Saleem Abdulrasool > compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-- -- Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20210908/2bf5dfe8/attachment.html>
Michael Kruse via llvm-dev
2021-Sep-09 02:20 UTC
[llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows
+1 I would even go as far to make libLLVM.dll (and libClang.dll?) the only (supported) configuration on Windows. The reason is that we currently cannot properly support plugins on Windows because these plugins need to know from which file to import symbols from. llvm_add_library has a PLUGIN_TOOL parameter to set this, but consequently the plugin can only be used with that tool (typically opt.exe), but to have a plugin for another executable like clang.exe, one would need another plugin binary and yet another one different one for clang-cl.exe etc. Having a canonical libLLVM.so for all tools+clang would finally allow us to support plugins one Windows(*). Also note previous discussion on this, e.g. [1]. [2] already suggests to introduce component-specific headers, from where dllimport/dllexport could be controlled. Michael (*) IMHO, the plugin system is currently broken under Linux as well. The plugin may need to link against symbols which simply do not exist in the target executable because the tool itself does not need them and have not been added by the linker. [1] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-June/150860.html [2] https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2021-June/151187.html
Chris Tetreault via llvm-dev
2021-Sep-09 17:02 UTC
[llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows
Let me start by saying that I think this is important work that you are undertaking. This is a huge task, and it you pull it off you will be a hero. Do you have any notion of how big the distribution would be on Windows with the dll build? 2 GB is ridiculous! At a previous workplace, we had a similar problem, and we solved it in much the way that you propose: by having a magic export macro that we decorated all external symbols with. The main problem was the human factor: there are those that don’t develop on Windows (we didn’t disable exporting everything by default on Linux and Mac), and it was a constant battle to get these developers to use the export macro. If we disable exporting everything on not-Windows, that will at least reduce the amount of people that fail to use the macro. (as they will get linker failures and presumably the build bots will complain) However, there will always be a contingent of people saying things like “This problem that you are solving doesn’t affect me, and now I a am being asked to do extra work! I don’t like this!” My personal opinion is that: ``` class LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI Foo { … ``` … is not materially harder to write than: ``` class Foo { … ``` … and this sort of stuff is just a fact of life in writing C++ code that is portable between Windows and Linux. However, if you don’t dynamically link in your day-to-day work, then it’s easy to mess this up. Is it `void LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI bar()` or `LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI void bar()`? Do I have to decorate class members, or just the class? When can I omit it? Do I have to decorate templated code? If you’re statically linking `LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI` preprocesses to nothing, so you can put it literally anywhere and your code will compile. I can’t think of how to do it offhand, and maybe it’s not possible, but if the system could somehow be rigged to fail to compile if you do it wrong, even for statically linked builds that would be nice. If this could be done, it would also help with the transition. At some point you’re going to flip the switch on this and everybody is going to get random breakages for a few days while they hunt down the stragglers. All I can say is: “good luck, I’ll be rooting for you!” Thanks, Chris Tetreault From: llvm-dev <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org> On Behalf Of Saleem Abdulrasool via llvm-dev Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 3:52 PM To: llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> Cc: Saleem Abdulrasool <abdulras at google.com>; Hans Wennborg <hwennborg at google.com> Subject: [llvm-dev] Supporting LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros. Hello llvm-dev, One of the current limitations on LLVM on Windows is that you cannot use LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/llvm/tools/llvm-shlib/CMakeLists.txt#L14-L16 I am interested in trying to see if we can lift this limitation. There are others in the community that also seem to be interested in seeing LLVM being possible to use as a DLL on Windows and the topic does come up on the mailing lists every so often. When you build a distribution of a LLVM based toolchain currently, the result on Windows is ~2GiB for a trimmed down toolset. This is largely due to the static linking used for all the tools. I would like to be able to use the shared LLVM build for building a toolset on Windows. Unlike Unix platforms, the default on Windows is that all symbols are treated as `dso_local` (that is `-fvisibility-default=hidden`). Symbols which are meant to participate in dynamic linking are to be attributed as `__declspec(dllexport)` in the module and `__declspec(dllimport)` external to the module. This is similar to Unix platforms where `__attribute__((__visibility__(...)))` controls the same type of behaviour with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. For the case of distributions, it would remain valuable to minimize the number of shared objects to reduce the files that require to be shipped but also to minimize the number of cross-module calls which are not entirely free (i.e. PLT+GOT or IAT costs). At the same time, the number of possible labels which can be exposed from a single module on Windows is limited to 64K. Experience from MSys2 indicates that LLVM with all the backends is likely to exceed this count (with a subset of targets, the number already is close to 60K). This means that it may be that we would need two libraries on Windows. With the LLVM community being diverse, people often build on different platforms with different configurations, and I am concerned that adding more differences in how we build libraries complicates how maintainable LLVM is. I would suggest that we actually change the behavior of the Unix builds to match that of Windows by building with `-fvisibility-default=hidden`. Although this is a change, it is not without value. By explicitly marking the interfaces which are vended by a library and making everything else internal, it does enable some potential optimization options for the compiler and linker (to be clear, I am not suggesting that this will have a guaranteed benefit, just that it can potentially enable additional opportunities for optimizations and size reductions). This should incidentally help static linking. In order to achieve this, we would need to have a module specific annotation to indicate what symbols are meant to be used outside of the module when built in a shared configuration. The same annotation would apply to all targets and is expected to be applied uniformly. This of course has a cost associated with it: the public interfaces would need to be decorated appropriately. However, by having the same behaviour on all the platforms, developers would not be impacted by the platform differences in their day-to-day development. The only time that developers would need to be aware of this is when they are working on the module boundary, that is, changes which do not change the API surface of LLVM would not need to consider the annotations. Concretely, what I believe is required to enable building with LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows is: - introduce module specific decoration (e.g. LLVM_SUPPORT_ABI, ...) to mark public interfaces of shared library modules - decorate all the public interfaces of the shared library modules with the new decoration - switching the builds to use `-fvisibility-default=hidden` by default I believe that these can be done mostly independently and staged in the order specified. Until the last phase, it would have no actual impact on the builds. However, by staging it, we could allow others to experiment with the option while it is under development, and allows for an easier path for switching the builds over. Although this would enable LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB on Windows, give us better uniformity between Windows and non-Windows platforms, potentially enable additional optimization benefits, improve binary sizes for a distribution of the toolchain (though less on Linux where distributors are already using the build configuration ignoring the official suggestions in the LLVM guides), and help with runtime costs of the toolchain (by making the core of the tools a shared library, the backing pages can now be shared across multiple instances), it is not entirely without downsides. The primary downsides that I see are: - it becomes less enticing to support both LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB and BUILD_SHARED_LIBS: while technically possible, interfaces will need to be decorated for both forms of the build - LLVM_DYLIB_COMPONENTS becomes less tractable: in theory it is possible to apply enough CPP magic to determine where a symbol is homed, but allowing a symbol to be homed in a shared or static library is significantly more complex - BUILD_SHARED_LIBS becomes more expensive to maintain: the decoration is per-module, which requires that we would need to decorate the symbols of each module with module specific annotations as well One argument that people make for BUILD_SHARED_LIBS is that it reduces the overall time build-test cycle. With the combination of lld, DWARF Fission, and LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB, I believe that most of the benefits still can be had. The cost of linking all the tools is amortized across the link of a single library, which while not as small as the a singular library, is offset by the following: - The LLVM_BUILD_LLVM_DYLIB would not require the re-linking of all the libraries for each tool. - DWARF Fission would avoid the need to relink all of the DWARF information. - lld is faster than the gold and bfd linkers Header changes would still ripple through the system as before, requiring rebuilding the transitive closure. Source file changes do not have the same impact of course. For those would like a more concrete example of what a change like this may shape up into: https://reviews.llvm.org/D109192 contains `LLVMSupportExports.h` which has the expected structure for declaring the decoration macros with the rest of the change primarily being focused on applying the decoration. Please ignore the CMake changes as they are there to ensure that the CI validates this without changing the configuration and not intended to be part of the final version of the change. -- Saleem Abdulrasool compnerd (at) compnerd (dot) org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20210909/b3c34219/attachment.html>