Kirill Kononenko
2009-Apr-20 19:42 UTC
[LLVMdev] Issue with paper http://llvm.org/devmtg/2008-08/Geoffray_VMKitProject.pdf and presentation http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/35/45/77/PDF/RR-6799.pdf
Dear all, This new version of the paper at: http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/36/53/37/PDF/RR-6799.pdf got ride of libJIT. Now my question is the how scientific is this research and research paper if instead of using libJIT and Portable.NET JIT: authors of "VMKit: a Substrate for Virtual Machines by Nicolas Geoffray — Gaël Thomas— Charles Clément —Bertil Folliot — Gilles Muller" simply decided to decided remove research information all together? Also how objective is Related Work part of this research paper in this context? Thanks, Kirill 2009/3/3 Nicolas Geoffray <nicolas.geoffray at lip6.fr>:> Dear all, > > First, sorry for all that noise. I know you guys *just don't care*TM, but > this requires some clarification. I won't say more than what's in this > email. > > The VMKit paper dates from early 2008. It compares VMKit with pnet 0.7.4 and > not the latest release (0.8.0) because we were not able to get any > information to build it correctly at the time; the website that hosted > libjit was broken, i.e. http://www.southern-storm.com.au. That said, here's > the info that we have on the pnet website: > >> January 15-01-2006: DotGNU Portable.NET 0.7.4 and libjit 0.0.6 released! >> >> New versions of Portable.NET and libjit are available. Far too many new >> features and bug fixes to list them here, see the announcement which >> includes a full list of new features and bug fixes. You can get it from the >> download page. >> >> December 03-12-2005: Portable.NET and libjit progress >> >> Work on libjit (A JIT designed to be independent of any particular virtual >> machine bytecode format or language) has resumed again and we are gearing >> towards using it in Portable.NET soon. Recently, there have also been >> donations which will be distributed amongst developers who contribute code >> to get libjit finished and hook it into Portable.NET's runtime engine. > > Maybe it's our mistake if we misinterpreted the informations given on that > webpage. From our understanding, libjit and pnet were merged in 0.7.4. Now > that we all know pnet and libjit are two separate, alive, projects, we will > stop refering to pnet only. The VMKit paper got rid of libjit references. As > for the LLVM developer meeting presentation, there is no mention of libjit. > > End of the story. > > Nicolas > > Kirill Kononenko wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> >> Just in case that this information does not get corrupted I want to >> point to the issue: >> >> >> In http://llvm.org/devmtg/2008-08/Geoffray_VMKitProject.pdf it is on >> page 21: "VMKit, Mono, PNet", Array bounds checks. >> >> In http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/35/45/77/PDF/RR-6799.pdf it is on page >> 17: "We compare N3 with Mono [9] version 1.2.6, and PNet version 0.7.4 >> [2], which uses libjit as dynamic compiler...." >> This statement is false. PNet version 0.7.4 has not been using LibJIT. >> It has been using an unroller. >> >> "The PNet performance show that libjit has very few optimizations and >> does not compete against robust compilers." >> >> In fact any amateur in Just-In-Time compilers, and Virtual Machine >> engines, by just looking at this benchmark on the next page "Figure 7: >> PNetMark results (higher is better)", can tell that PNet engine used >> to take these measures has not been a Just-In-Time compiler. However, >> the authors of the paper insist. >> >> This benchmark definitely does not tell anything about LibJIT, as >> LibJIT has not been used. In fact, we started development of LibJIT as >> an answer to such benchmarks issues. >> >> I can suggest the authors of these papers to use a real industrial VM >> engine to compare. For instance, check Microsoft .NET or if you cannot >> do this "for legal reason" try Java HotSpot. But not a 5 years old >> version, although even that should give you more objective results >> that you can understand what these benchmark mean in fact. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Kirill >> >> 2009/3/2 Chris Lattner <clattner at apple.com>: >> >>> >>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Kirill Kononenko wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Hello Dear LLVM Developers and Users >>>> >>> >>> Hi Kirill, >>> >>> Please talk to Nicholas about this, thanks! >>> >>> -Chris >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I would like to complain about scientific inaccuracy of the paper >>>> http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/35/45/77/PDF/RR-6799.pdf written by >>>> Nicolas Geoffray, Gaël Thomas, Charles Clément, Bertil Folliot, Gilles >>>> Muller and presentation done by Nicolas Geoffray on LLVM conference >>>> supported by Google: >>>> http://llvm.org/devmtg/2008-08/Geoffray_VMKitProject.pdf >>>> >>>> They provide comparison of their system that uses LLVM, with our >>>> system Portable.NET that uses LibJIT for Just-In-Time compilation. >>>> All measures in this paper have been done for Portable.NET 0.7.4, >>>> which does not use LibJIT as its engine. However, the author provides >>>> results of Portable.NET 0.7.4. as results of LibJIT. The Portable.NET >>>> 0.7.4 uses a dynamic compiler, which has nothing in common with the >>>> project and development of LibJIT. We are very upset with these papers >>>> and that there are such "researchers" in your group. Portable.NET >>>> 0.7.4 was released 3 years ago. LibJIT have been developed during the >>>> last 3 years. We require that you remove this paper and this >>>> presentation and make official excuses not only in this maillist but >>>> also on the next conferences when you talk about LLVM. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Kirill >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> LLVM Developers mailing list >>>> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu >>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> LLVM Developers mailing list >> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev >> > >-- http://code.google.com/p/libjit-linear-scan-register-allocator/
Chris Lattner
2009-Apr-20 20:28 UTC
[LLVMdev] Issue with paper http://llvm.org/devmtg/2008-08/Geoffray_VMKitProject.pdf and presentation http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/35/45/77/PDF/RR-6799.pdf
On Apr 20, 2009, at 12:42 PM, Kirill Kononenko wrote:> Dear all, > > > This new version of the paper at: > > http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/36/53/37/PDF/RR-6799.pdf > > got ride of libJIT. Now my question is the how scientific is this > research and research paper if instead of using libJIT and > Portable.NET JIT: > authors of "VMKit: a Substrate for Virtual Machines by Nicolas > Geoffray — Gaël Thomas— Charles Clément —Bertil Folliot — Gilles > Muller" simply decided to decided remove research information all > together? Also how objective is Related Work part of this research > paper in this context?Kirill, this has nothing to do with llvm. Please stay on topic or your future postings will be moderated. -Chris
Kirill Kononenko
2009-Apr-20 20:37 UTC
[LLVMdev] Issue with paper http://llvm.org/devmtg/2008-08/Geoffray_VMKitProject.pdf and presentation http://hal.inria.fr/docs/00/35/45/77/PDF/RR-6799.pdf
Hi Chris How does this has nothing to do with llvm? Is not the VMKit project an official part of LLVM? Thanks, Kirill -- http://code.google.com/p/libjit-linear-scan-register-allocator/
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