Hi Why are journaled soft updates the default when installing a new system from a 9.1-RC2 ISO? I admit I did not pay too much attention when installing a new system from an 9.1-RC2 ISO and found out when taking a snapshot with dump (dump -0Lauf) to clone the system. Other systems (9-STABLE, 9.1-RC2 and 9.1-RC3) have been upgraded from 8.X-RELEASE and earlier, so there are no journaled soft updates enabled, just soft updates, and well there dump with snapshot works just fine. Can SU+J be disabled for the 9.1-RELEASE or do you think this is not going to be a problem for users of FreeBSD? I will have to boot these two systems single user now to disable the soft updates journal, because I use dump + restore on live systems, not a problem for me, it is just an inconvenience. Cheers Bas This e-mail message, including any attachment(s), is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of OSE. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please return this e-mail message and the attachment(s) to the sender and delete and destroy all copies.
On 11/2/2012 23:47, Bas Smeelen wrote:> Hi > > Why are journaled soft updates the default when installing a new system > from a 9.1-RC2 ISO? > > I admit I did not pay too much attention when installing a new system > from an 9.1-RC2 ISO and found out when taking a snapshot with dump (dump > -0Lauf) to clone the system. Other systems (9-STABLE, 9.1-RC2 and > 9.1-RC3) have been upgraded from 8.X-RELEASE and earlier, so there are > no journaled soft updates enabled, just soft updates, and well there > dump with snapshot works just fine. > > Can SU+J be disabled for the 9.1-RELEASE or do you think this is not > going to be a problem for users of FreeBSD? I will have to boot these > two systems single user now to disable the soft updates journal, because > I use dump + restore on live systems, not a problem for me, it is just > an inconvenience.I have to second this sentiment. Unless the dump/snapshot issue has been resolved they journal should be turned off by default. It's a really nasty bug that causes an instant panic which is awful if the server is in production. The fact that it happens when you're trying to exercise due diligence (ie; backups) is even worse. -- my .02
On Sat, 3 Nov 2012, Adam Strohl wrote:> On 11/2/2012 23:47, Bas Smeelen wrote: >> Hi >> >> Why are journaled soft updates the default when installing a new system >> from a 9.1-RC2 ISO? >> >> I admit I did not pay too much attention when installing a new system >> from an 9.1-RC2 ISO and found out when taking a snapshot with dump (dump >> -0Lauf) to clone the system. Other systems (9-STABLE, 9.1-RC2 and >> 9.1-RC3) have been upgraded from 8.X-RELEASE and earlier, so there are >> no journaled soft updates enabled, just soft updates, and well there >> dump with snapshot works just fine. >> >> Can SU+J be disabled for the 9.1-RELEASE or do you think this is not >> going to be a problem for users of FreeBSD? I will have to boot these >> two systems single user now to disable the soft updates journal, because >> I use dump + restore on live systems, not a problem for me, it is just >> an inconvenience. > > > I have to second this sentiment. Unless the dump/snapshot issue has been > resolved they journal should be turned off by default.+1 -- DE
On 11/02/2012 10:42 PM, Daniel Eischen wrote:> On Sat, 3 Nov 2012, Adam Strohl wrote: > >> On 11/2/2012 23:47, Bas Smeelen wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Why are journaled soft updates the default when installing a new system >>> from a 9.1-RC2 ISO? >>> >>> I admit I did not pay too much attention when installing a new system >>> from an 9.1-RC2 ISO and found out when taking a snapshot with dump >>> (dump >>> -0Lauf) to clone the system. Other systems (9-STABLE, 9.1-RC2 and >>> 9.1-RC3) have been upgraded from 8.X-RELEASE and earlier, so there are >>> no journaled soft updates enabled, just soft updates, and well there >>> dump with snapshot works just fine. >>> >>> Can SU+J be disabled for the 9.1-RELEASE or do you think this is not >>> going to be a problem for users of FreeBSD? I will have to boot these >>> two systems single user now to disable the soft updates journal, >>> because >>> I use dump + restore on live systems, not a problem for me, it is just >>> an inconvenience. >> >> >> I have to second this sentiment. Unless the dump/snapshot issue has >> been resolved they journal should be turned off by default. > > +1 >I have submitted a PR with patch, see how it goes Cheers This e-mail message, including any attachment(s), is intended solely for the addressee or addressees. Any views or opinions presented herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of OSE. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication please return this e-mail message and the attachment(s) to the sender and delete and destroy all copies.
I still use 8 and plan to install branch 9 on new laptop
with ssd. If journaling comes as default on 9.1, I plan to
accept defaults on partitioning and use tunefs to remove it
with -h disable. Any idea what steps should I take for that?
As far as I read, journaling uses it's own partitions. Do
I have to remove them, resize them? Branch 8 had option to
choose su and j during install.
I tried to find proper tutorials/manuals, but lacked to re-
solve it in my head.
Best regards all
Zoran
(Please keep me CC'd, as I'm not subscribed to -stable) I've CC'd Nathan Whitehorn, who according to bsdinstall(8) is the author (not sure if maintainer) of the code. This default has already begun to bite users/SAs in the ass: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2012-November/246069.html SU+J (the journalling part specifically) needs to be disabled by default in the installer. This default was a very bad choice and should not have been done. It either indicates someone was out of touch with the rest of the issues surrounding the feature, or that someone intentionally decided "it's the best way to get people using it for testing" (I have seen this justification presented in the past, and it is the wrong approach). However, since some people DO want it (and those folks don't use dump), the installer should be modified to make SU+J support toggleable via a a checkbox. The default, obviously, should be unchecked. If the user checks the checkbox, an ominous warning message should be displayed informing the user of the repercussions. The only option at that point should be "OK", after which the checkbox is checked. Do not tell me "send patches". This issue/problem has gone on long enough, and the community bitched hard/long enough, that the person who committed this default should be responsible for fixing it. We should operate under the assumption that this bug/problem will never be fixed. It probably will be, but again, we must operate with the assumption that Kirk et al will require years to fix it. (It has already been something like 9 months. Or is it a year?) While I'm here -- does anyone remember the exact commit which was done sometime in the past 6-9 months which "made the installer work properly with SSDs" (re: partition alignment)? I have questions about that; if I remember right, someone set the alignment size to 4KBytes, and that is completely 100% wrong -- it needs to be 1MByte or 2MBytes if you want to be extra cautious, which correlates with NAND erase block size, otherwise we're not really solving jack squat. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at koitsu.org | | UNIX Systems Administrator http://jdc.koitsu.org/ | | Mountain View, CA, US | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP 4BD6C0CB |
> There's an existing checkbox to disable it. There was substantial > consensus for 9.0 that SUJ was something we wantedNice to hear. I assume you mean check box during install process? Not mentioned in install guide in handbook. So, after I accept guided partitioning, I should go to "modify" or else? Sorry to bother again and again, but it is not clear to me at the moment. I'd avoid further tunefs if possible. If not possible, let me clear that branch 8 has no J as default and I found myself wondering. Correct me if I'm wrong. I have to go to single user mode first. Make fsck on partition that contains freebsd-ufs ( / ). Check options for that partition with "tunefs -p partition". What exact name that partition would have? Next I have to disable journaling with "-j disable" and enable trim with "-t enable". Reboot and voila? People mention file or partition that has to be deleted. Next few days I will put ssd into laptop and manage install, when release shows up. If there is another point I have to choose for journaling, let me know. Best regards all Zoran
> Just rebooting to single user mode after the install and then tunefs -j > disable /dev/ada0p2 works for me. > After a reboot then I just removed /.sujournalThat crystillized to me as a correct way in this situation. Just one "fsck" at the very beginning? Manual says about some options available after it only. People mostly mention journaling for servers. Anybody using 9.x on laptop with ssd? Thanks all for help, regarding this option. Zoran