Hey guys, I toyed around with the Wiki today to deuglify it a little bit. I used a theme which is a bit of a "CMS" theme for MoinMoin and played around with the logo colors. The theme is based on the plsavez theme, which I like as it has a very uncluttered interface for people who aren't logged in - they only see some important interwiki links (FrontPage, RecentChanges and so on), while all the other stuff is hidden from them. That changes as soon as you log into the wiki - then everything needed is there again. The "Current Events" table has its own css style, so we should be able to move it around or do other stuff with it. At the moment the style is only used for the background colour. The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be changed :) Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071003/637d86b7/a...
Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. Oh, and before you start wondering: That is not the current wiki content, yes. This is the old instance of the wiki. Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071003/197a591d/a...
On 10/3/07, Ralph Angenendt <ra+centos@br-online.de> wrote: > Ralph Angenendt wrote: > > Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. > > Oh, and before you start wondering: That is not the current wiki > content, yes. This is the old instance of the wiki. > > Cheers, > > Ralph Very nice. One minor commnt. While it is the most important thing, the CentOS logo could be made a little smaller. Currently, it is taking up more screen estate than it needs... Akemi
Akemi Yagi wrote: > Very nice. One minor commnt. While it is the most important thing, > the CentOS logo could be made a little smaller. Currently, it is > taking up more screen estate than it needs... Better? Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071003/9d4161a6/a...
On 10/3/07, Ralph Angenendt <ra+centos@br-online.de> wrote: > Akemi Yagi wrote: > > Very nice. One minor commnt. While it is the most important thing, > > the CentOS logo could be made a little smaller. Currently, it is > > taking up more screen estate than it needs... > > Better? > > Cheers, > > Ralph Yes. Thanks. Akemi
On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Hey guys, > Hi :) > The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be > changed :) Dark green links on green backgroud is hard to read -> CentOS blue instead? Nice work. Tru -- Dr Tru Huynh | http://www.pasteur.fr/recherche/unites/Binfs/ mailto:tru@pasteur.fr | tel/fax +33 1 45 68 87 37/19 Institut Pasteur, 25-28 rue du Docteur Roux, 75724 Paris CEDEX 15 France
Tru Huynh wrote: > On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > > The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be > > changed :) > Dark green links on green backgroud is hard to read -> CentOS blue instead? Yes. I didn't have the time to see how to change that without changing them across all pages. But should be doable. > Nice work. I think it's a bit too colorful, but ... Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071004/f898c143/a...
Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Tru Huynh wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:28:29PM +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote: >>> The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be >>> changed :) >> Dark green links on green backgroud is hard to read -> CentOS blue instead? > > Yes. I didn't have the time to see how to change that without changing > them across all pages. But should be doable. > >> Nice work. > > I think it's a bit too colorful, but ... > I agree, but no harm in having a play :) > Ralph > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS-docs mailing list > CentOS-docs@centos.org > http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-docs
On Thu, 2007-10-04 at 01:02 +0200, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > I think it's a bit too colorful, but ... I have to agree there. I like small content area, and the bullets, but definitely not the colors ;). -- Daniel
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be > changed :) > > Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. *** my eyes, my eyes!! *** .. and to think that I took grief early on for my efforts ;) -- Russ Herrold
R P Herrold wrote: > On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > >> The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be >> changed :) > > *** my eyes, my eyes!! *** > > .. and to think that I took grief early on for my efforts ;) You want me to change that CentOS blue to CentOS purple? :) Yeah, I also think it has too many colours. Let's see where we can get with it ... Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071004/047a22fd/a...
El mi?, 03-10-2007 a las 21:28 +0200, Ralph Angenendt escribi?: > Hey guys, > > [...] > > Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. > > Cheers, > > Ralph Looks very nice, much better than current (ugly)-wiki. But green color links over green-color background is very hard to read. But I think that we have two issues for check: 1.- Design (artwork, iconos, etc) 2.- Structure/Content About design, I like it this one very simple: http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Main_Page In the near future we will need contact designers :-) About content, rigth now I think there is too much in the main page. I prefer something more light and easy to read (but this is my personal view). From this proposal: http://wiki.centos.org/FrontPageProposal I'm agree in general. I don't understand why "Promote" is other link out of "Contribute" (maybe is my spanish mother language ;-) It will be nice have something like GoogleAnalytics o other "statistic tool" to see what wiki sections are the most used by the visitors. -- Hardy Beltran Monasterios
Hardy Beltran Monasterios wrote: > Looks very nice, much better than current (ugly)-wiki. But green color > links over green-color background is very hard to read. Yes, I'm gonna change that (and probably some other colours). That was just toying around with the logo colours. > About design, I like it this one very simple: > > http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Main_Page ARGH! That even hurts my eyes - and I like colourful! > About content, rigth now I think there is too much in the main page. I > prefer something more light and easy to read (but this is my personal > view). From this proposal: > > http://wiki.centos.org/FrontPageProposal As I said: This is the *old* wiki with *old* content. This was just about testing out another layout for the wiki. The content discussion is one thread up =:) > It will be nice have something like GoogleAnalytics o other "statistic > tool" to see what wiki sections are the most used by the visitors. <http://wiki-m.centos.org/PageHits> Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071004/b801f778/a...
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > I toyed around with the Wiki today to deuglify it a little bit. I used a > theme which is a bit of a "CMS" theme for MoinMoin and played around > with the logo colors. > > The theme is based on the plsavez theme, which I like as it has a very > uncluttered interface for people who aren't logged in - they only see > some important interwiki links (FrontPage, RecentChanges and so on), > while all the other stuff is hidden from them. > > That changes as soon as you log into the wiki - then everything needed > is there again. > > The "Current Events" table has its own css style, so we should be able > to move it around or do other stuff with it. At the moment the style is > only used for the background colour. > > The result is, errm, a bit colorful at the moment, but that can be > changed :) > > Your opinions and critique please: <http://wiki-m.centos.org/>. I liked it already over the current one ! But: - I do not like the colors all that much, I prefer something more sober and professional - I like the font and size - I do not like the globe for external links - I prefer to have titles either in bold or underline, currently I find it hard to see what actually is a title - I would go for normal (default) colors for links (and underline them) - I do think a menu/sidebar that follows some structure of the site is important, also to house some other info like events and blog posts If you visit without being logged in: - I would remove the Tabs (RecentChanges, FindPage, SiteNavigation, HelpContents) - I am not a proponent for showing 'MoinMoin powered, Python powered, Valid HTML 4.01' on every webpage. The wiki is not for geeks. There is little value in showing it on every page. I couldn't log on to test. -- -- dag wieers, dag@centos.org, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors]
Dag Wieers wrote: > On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > I liked it already over the current one ! But: > > - I do not like the colors all that much, I prefer something more sober > and professional Hey, you began with the colors on the current wiki >;) But on the other hand - what are "professional" colors? > - I like the font and size > - I do not like the globe for external links That can be changed (or copied over from another theme). > - I prefer to have titles either in bold or underline, currently I find > it hard to see what actually is a title Bold I guess. Is doable. > - I would go for normal (default) colors for links (and underline them) I like it the way it is - underline them if the mouse hovers over them. It helps still being readable if links occur in larger texts - underlining them hinders the reading flow (in my opinion). > - I do think a menu/sidebar that follows some structure of the site is > important, also to house some other info like events and blog posts I absolutely *do* hate side bars (like MedaWiki has them). But as I said: The table hosting "current events" has it's own css class, so it should be possible to move it around on the page - and to give it a different look. I've done it as a table, as that is the *only* place I can tell the wiki to use css style sheets while editing text - see <http://wiki-m.centos.org/HelpOnTables>. There might be plugins for something similar, I haven't looked yet. > If you visit without being logged in: > > - I would remove the Tabs (RecentChanges, FindPage, SiteNavigation, > HelpContents) I'd keep at least SiteNavigation and RecentChanges > - I am not a proponent for showing 'MoinMoin powered, Python powered, > Valid HTML 4.01' on every webpage. The wiki is not for geeks. There is > little value in showing it on every page. This is the space where I'd like to put the Creative Commons stuff. > I couldn't log on to test. That is strange, as you should be able to - you had access to the old wiki. Cheers, Ralph -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-docs/attachments/20071004/7356fb82/a...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > Dag Wieers wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ralph Angenendt wrote: > > I liked it already over the current one ! But: > > > > - I do not like the colors all that much, I prefer something more sober > > and professional > > Hey, you began with the colors on the current wiki >;) > > But on the other hand - what are "professional" colors? Not to many different colors and more importantly, not everything in different colors :) I didn't mean professional colors, I meant that the look and feel should be somewhat more sober and professional. The artwork and colors should not distract you from the content, the content should be enjoyable to read. (not look dull because of the theme) > > - I would go for normal (default) colors for links (and underline them) > > I like it the way it is - underline them if the mouse hovers over them. > It helps still being readable if links occur in larger texts - > underlining them hinders the reading flow (in my opinion). I can suppress my personal opinion on this :) > > - I do think a menu/sidebar that follows some structure of the site is > > important, also to house some other info like events and blog posts > > I absolutely *do* hate side bars (like MedaWiki has them). But as I > said: The table hosting "current events" has it's own css class, so it > should be possible to move it around on the page - and to give it a > different look. I've done it as a table, as that is the *only* place I > can tell the wiki to use css style sheets while editing text - see > <http://wiki-m.centos.org/HelpOnTables>. > > There might be plugins for something similar, I haven't looked yet. Even though you may dislike side bars, I still feel it is important for someone that ends up on a single page via Google, that he has something to guide him out of the page to other content. If I absolutely hate something about Wikis in general, it is that there never is any structure from a single page's view. You can see from where it is linked, but you do not know whether it is relevant (or deemed relevant). At least a generic structure gives a visitor (of one of the wiki-pages) a clear idea of what other kind of content is available and it might help him to actually Download CentOS, or look at what other documentation is in the Wiki. Which is the primary task of a Wiki. Making all of the content available. So sorry that you hate sidebars, but we definitely need some structure, because most people that cannot work with a Wiki end up leaving the page where he ended up via Google. Missing out on everything else that is there. > > If you visit without being logged in: > > > > - I would remove the Tabs (RecentChanges, FindPage, SiteNavigation, > > HelpContents) > > I'd keep at least SiteNavigation and RecentChanges Ok, look at it from a complete other view. You search on Google about Yum and CentOS. You end up on: http://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/Yum/ If you click on either SiteNavigation or RecentChanges, as a user that is interested in more information, you are lost. SiteNavigation is completely not related to the content of the page. It offers less than the search-box offers. RecentChanges is not relevant for someone visiting the page. We offer in the 'HEAD' view of that page everything we deem important. RecentChanges if only useful for people that edit that page or are interested in improving that page. You need to log in for that, so it is completely useless to the average visitor. In fact, and I repeat myself, if you end up on that Yum page as a normal visitor, you are lost. If you are lucky you are using the Uppity extension in firefox and you go Up. And going Up or doing a Search is the only thing you can do. At least we should have a menu somewhere that offers choice and guidance. * Index - Download - Documentation - Contribute - Promote - Donate - About * Search What I also like is something that allows you to go up. In this case it could be: Wiki ? Documentation ? Package Management ? Yum To help you find related information. > > - I am not a proponent for showing 'MoinMoin powered, Python powered, > > Valid HTML 4.01' on every webpage. The wiki is not for geeks. There is > > little value in showing it on every page. > > This is the space where I'd like to put the Creative Commons stuff. That indeed seems more relevant :) What I didn't mention yet is that the Google Adsense is eating away 20% of my viewable screen area (I have a 1024x768 resolution) and I think that is totally unacceptable. Together with the logo and Wiki title you loose 50% of the screen. http://dag.wieers.com/attic/CentOS/Screenshot-wiki.png I do not even see the *real* content of the front-page. And you don't want to have a side-bar ?? Compare this to other frontpages: http://openvz.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS The content is accessible without having to scroll. I can automatically start to read. I understand the need to earn something with Google Adsense, but it should not intervene with the most important goal of a Wiki. Using this 20% for ads, and another 30% for logo and title definitely makes the Wiki very unattractive and appaling to me. If we really do need to make money, there are (in my opinion) better alternatives to maximise profit. (Selling business CDs, creating a CentOS Association people can become member of, like Drupal has, branded goods) And the website looks like one of those parked domain websites full of adds with not content, not something I would like to be associated with. -- -- dag wieers, dag@centos.org, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors]
On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Dag Wieers wrote: > What I didn't mention yet is that the Google Adsense is eating away 20% of > my viewable screen area (I have a 1024x768 resolution) and I think that is > totally unacceptable. Together with the logo and Wiki title you loose 50% > of the screen. > > http://dag.wieers.com/attic/CentOS/Screenshot-wiki.png > > I do not even see the *real* content of the front-page. And you don't want > to have a side-bar ?? Compare this to other frontpages: > > http://openvz.org/ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS > > The content is accessible without having to scroll. I can automatically > start to read. Compare these links: http://dag.wieers.com/attic/centos/screenshot-wiki.png http://dag.wieers.com/attic/centos/screenshot-openvz.png http://dag.wieers.com/attic/centos/screenshot-mediawiki.png and you understand why the CentOS wiki is unacceptable. There is no content on the first page on my viewable area, hence the need for at least one sidebar hosting the logo and structure (and maybe ads). -- -- dag wieers, dag@centos.org, http://dag.wieers.com/ -- [Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors]
