asterisk users - Sep 2004 - Free WWT (WorldWideTelco): Utopia, or just a matter of organization?

I had this idea, and after looking for something like this already in
progress, I found another guy who tried to start it... But I was
unable to contact him, and his project seems to be dead. But, I
believe it is possible, and I wanted to know the opinion of the
experienced... So, let's go:

I got an asterisk server setup to receive free calls from US to
Brazil. The problem is that at my work, the Internet connection is
really good, so I can talk to US, and receive calls from US (through
StanaPhone, and IPKall) without any problems. But, at my home, there's
no broadband. So, I bought an FXO card, put it at my PC at work, and
whenever it gets a call to me, it dials my home number. So I can talk
to US for a local call cost, with sound quality better than the real
phone call from US (I already did, and it's really better through
voip).

I was thinking: we could build an Asterisk network, maybe go even
further and make it P2P like skype (but I believe it's not necessary
at the beginning), and every user would share it's phone line, and be
able to place calls to PSTN through the other users' phone lines. So,
I let Japanese people call my neighbours for free, and an Italian guy
may let me use his phone, so he can use the Indian guy's phone...

In US, local calls are free. So it wouldn't be a problem to make such
a network to get rid of long distance calls. But in other countries
(like here in Brazil) local calls are charged. So there could be some
king of billing (without commercial purposes, just to pay for the
costs), or something...

Asterisk is really powerful, and I believe that at least for a small
initial test, it wouldn't require anything else.

So, any thoughts on this? Critics, suggestions, ideas...

Marconi.

Marconi Rivello [marconirivello@gmail.com] wrote:
> I was thinking: we could build an Asterisk network, maybe go even
> further and make it P2P like skype (but I believe it's not necessary
> at the beginning), and every user would share it's phone line, and be
> able to place calls to PSTN through the other users' phone lines. So,
> I let Japanese people call my neighbours for free, and an Italian guy
> may let me use his phone, so he can use the Indian guy's phone...
> 
> In US, local calls are free. So it wouldn't be a problem to make such
> a network to get rid of long distance calls. But in other countries
> (like here in Brazil) local calls are charged. So there could be some
> king of billing (without commercial purposes, just to pay for the costs),
> or something... 
> 
What you're suggesting is possible, but has its drawbacks:

    1. A home user who has one phone line, and opens it up to the
       world for local calls, may find that the line is in use by a
       bunch of Brazilian people when he goes to use it, or tries to
       make an emergency call.

    2. Your phone line may be used to make crank calls, or to place
       fake pizza orders etc.

    3. A wide range of other issues that seem to have slipped my mind.

This sort of thing is best organised centrally, rather than by a
bunch of people opening up their phone system to the world.  A central
body would have control over who gets to use the service, and can
cancel a subscription, and take more effective action, if abuse is
proven.  A central body would also be better prepared to trace who
made that crank call.

Although it's a nice idea, it's not really practical, in my opinion.
That sort of setup is best left to companies who want to allow "local"
dialout from any office, rather than as a publicly-accessible effort.

Of course, if you want to open up your phone line then don't let me
stop you. :-)  You could persuade a bunch of people you know to do the
same, but I'd advise against opening up such a network to the unwashed
general public.

-- 
   _/   _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/  _/    _/
  _/_/_/   _/_/      _/    _/    _/    _/_/  _/   K e v i n   W a l s h
 _/ _/    _/          _/ _/     _/    _/  _/_/    kevin@cursor.biz
_/   _/  _/_/_/_/      _/    _/_/_/  _/    _/

hi marconi my name is Mo and i like that adea of everybody conecting their
asterisk to the local phones but can you explain me more how to do that.
regards
Mo

-------------- Original message -------------- 
> I had this idea, and after looking for something like this already in 
> progress, I found another guy who tried to start it... But I was 
> unable to contact him, and his project seems to be dead. But, I 
> believe it is possible, and I wanted to know the opinion of the 
> experienced... So, let's go: 
> 
> I got an asterisk server setup to receive free calls from US to 
> Brazil. The problem is that at my work, the Internet connection is 
> really good, so I can talk to US, and receive calls from US (through 
> StanaPhone, and IPKall) without any problems. But, at my home, there's 
> no broadband. So, I bought an FXO card, put it at my PC at work, and 
> whenever it gets a call to me, it dials my home number. So I can talk 
> to US for a local call cost, with sound quality better than the real 
> phone call from US (I already did, and it's really better through 
> voip). 
> 
> I was thinking: we could build an Asterisk network, maybe go even 
> further and make it P2P like skype (but I believe it's not necessary 
> at the beginning), and every user would share it's phone line, and be 
> able to place calls to PSTN through the other users' phone lines. So, 
> I let Japanese people call my neighbours for free, and an Italian guy 
> may let me use his phone, so he can use the Indian guy's phone... 
> 
> In US, local calls are free. So it wouldn't be a problem to make such 
> a network to get rid of long distance calls. But in other countries 
> (like here in Brazil) local calls are charged. So there could be some 
> king of billing (without commercial purposes, just to pay for the 
> costs), or something... 
> 
> Asterisk is really powerful, and I believe that at least for a small 
> initial test, it wouldn't require anything else. 
> 
> So, any thoughts on this? Critics, suggestions, ideas... 
> 
> Marconi. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Asterisk-Users mailing list 
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com 
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: 
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20040904/915de56e/attachment.htm

Marc:
I took a look at those websites, but they look like a big phonebook.
Are you sure that they provide ways of placing calls from SIP to PSTN
for free?

Marconi.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 22:22:02 +0200, Marc Storck <mstorck@luxadmin.org>
wrote:
> This already exists, it's called ENUM/E.164 and exists at different
> locations:
> 
> e164.lu
> e164.info
> e164.org
> e164.arpa
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marc

Marc

Sure -- you register a free number that reaches your asterisk box, and
configure your box to let incoming callers dial out locally to the PSTN.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Marconi Rivello [mailto:marconirivello@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 9:03 PM
To: Marc Storck
Cc: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Free WWT (WorldWideTelco): Utopia,or just
a matter of organization?

Marc:
I took a look at those websites, but they look like a big phonebook.
Are you sure that they provide ways of placing calls from SIP to PSTN
for free?

Marconi.

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 22:22:02 +0200, Marc Storck <mstorck@luxadmin.org>
wrote:
> This already exists, it's called ENUM/E.164 and exists at different
> locations:
> 
> e164.lu
> e164.info
> e164.org
> e164.arpa
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marc
_______________________________________________
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Marconi Rivello wrote:
> In US, local calls are free. So it wouldn't be a problem to make such
> a network to get rid of long distance calls. But in other countries
> (like here in Brazil) local calls are charged. So there could be some
> king of billing (without commercial purposes, just to pay for the
> costs), or something...
Well... actually...  There are ever fewer people left in the U.S. who 
have free local outbound calls.  Lots of people have enough calls or 
minutes included in the base monthly charge to cover their normal 
calling every month, so it sort of looks like the calls are "free." 
However, if their phone is suddenly in use 18 hours / day by people all 
over the world their bill might jump painfully.  For example, if I 
exceed my monthly allowance on my residential POTS lines with Verizon, I 
pay 9.6 cents per local call.

However, if your phone company in the U.S. ever noticed that you were 
billing or sharing your line, they'd probably make you get a more 
expensive business line, and that's if they were feeling really, really 
nice.  (A Local Exchange Carrier (LEC) not to be named here once shut 
down one of our DS-3s without notice because we thought we were 
wholesaling the capacity, in part because we were carrying VOIP across 
it.  Their lawyers turned green, and sent people with fancy titles to 
apologize, after they realized what the business office had done, but 
it, and lesser episodes, show that the LECs in the U.S. are, as a 
general rule, quite freaked out about all this VOIP and "free" phone 
call stuff.  You are messing with their revenue, you know.)

All of which pales besides how you'll feel the first time the police 
drop by to discuss a phone call placed from your phone that played a key 
role in some nasty crime.  The chances are you'd have some very long and 
very painful discussions with police officers who wouldn't know an RTP 
packet if it punched them in the nose about how a) it wasn't you, b) it 
wasn't somebody who came over to your house to use your phone, c)  you 
might be able to figure out what country the call was from if they let 
you go home and look at your logs, and d)  they should believe you and 
not the technicians from the phone company.

So, I'd second other recommendations here that do this if you must for a 
few friends you trust, but think really, really hard before you open 
something like this to the public.

--Jon Radel