Hi all, While pondering my choices for local dial tone service via a bunch of POTS lines or a T1, I began to wonder if perhaps there is another way. Are there VoIP dialtone providers? That is, could I use only my internet connection for voice calls and not have a separate T1/POTS bank for that? I guess I am imagining a company that gateways between the PTSN and the internet backbone. Calls come in and get VoIP'ed and sent to me as packets, perhaps IAX, perhaps something else? First question: Does such a thing exist? Where? Second question: Does it work? How well? Third question: Would you want it? Why? Fourth question: How much $$$? -- Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com
I think NuFone can do what you need contact sales@nufone.net I have inbound 800 service and outbound ld service with them.. works great. bkw On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Mike Ciholas wrote:> > Hi all, > > While pondering my choices for local dial tone service via a > bunch of POTS lines or a T1, I began to wonder if perhaps there > is another way. > > Are there VoIP dialtone providers? That is, could I use only my > internet connection for voice calls and not have a separate > T1/POTS bank for that? > > I guess I am imagining a company that gateways between the PTSN > and the internet backbone. Calls come in and get VoIP'ed and > sent to me as packets, perhaps IAX, perhaps something else? > > First question: Does such a thing exist? Where? > > Second question: Does it work? How well? > > Third question: Would you want it? Why? > > Fourth question: How much $$$? > > -- > Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice > CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax > 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com > Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users >
On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 14:20, Mike Ciholas wrote:> Are there VoIP dialtone providers? That is, could I use only my > internet connection for voice calls and not have a separate > T1/POTS bank for that?packet8.com nufone.com iconnecthere.com I haven't tried any of them yet. I'm considering setting up a site to review SIP phones, channel banks (and other FXO/FXS), VoIP providers, etc. I haven't been able to find a single resource that describes well what the pros/cons are of each, or even just what the options are. Steve
At 3:20 PM -0500 8/20/03, Mike Ciholas wrote:> >Hi all, > >While pondering my choices for local dial tone service via a >bunch of POTS lines or a T1, I began to wonder if perhaps there >is another way. > >Are there VoIP dialtone providers? That is, could I use only my >internet connection for voice calls and not have a separate >T1/POTS bank for that? > >I guess I am imagining a company that gateways between the PTSN >and the internet backbone. Calls come in and get VoIP'ed and >sent to me as packets, perhaps IAX, perhaps something else? > >First question: Does such a thing exist? Where?Yes. http://www.iconnecthere.com/ http://www.packet8.net/ http://www.nufone.net/ http://www.coloco.com/ (not obviously visible on the home page, but exists) http://www.voicepulse.com/ ...many others. Use your favorite search engine to look up SIP long distance providers. Some of the above (notably NuFone and Coloco) will provide IAX/IAX2 termination.>Second question: Does it work? How well?Works great. I haven't made a long distance call on my PSTN line in months, and I spend pretty much all day on LD calls.>Third question: Would you want it? Why?Yes. Cheap, portable, failure-tolerant. Note that your phone service suddenly becomes as (un)reliable as your Internet connectivity, so ensure that you have those bases covered through the "normal" methods such as multihoming, facility redundancy, MPLS, etc. I would also suggest you have multiple outbound VoIP providers, with automatic failover configured in your Asterisk server. This is easily done.>Fourth question: How much $$$?As little as $.01 a minute anywhere in the US, and great international rates, depending on providers. Remember you can get multiple accounts, and send your calls to different providers based on static tables of who you think is cheapest for that dial prefix. To address your previous question of "is it ready for prime time" the answer is: For basic features, absolutely. I have several customers whose systems I have configured for their offices... and I haven't heard from them in MONTHS. The systems have had 100% uptime, handling calls from POTS and VoIP lines. For exotic features: maybe. There is a HUGE list of niggly little features that everyone is in love with in their particular PBX. Some of those features, Asterisk does exceedingly well, and others that are less frequently used, it does not. However, this situation is no different with Asterisk than with any other PBX system that you might evaluate, so all things being equal I'd say Asterisk is a LOT better than a proprietary solution since you can get under the hood yourself and fix things that might need to be updated. JT>-- >Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice >CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax >2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com >Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com
> Are there VoIP dialtone providers? That is, could I use only my > internet connection for voice calls and not have a separate > T1/POTS bank for that? > > I guess I am imagining a company that gateways between the PTSN > and the internet backbone. Calls come in and get VoIP'ed and > sent to me as packets, perhaps IAX, perhaps something else? > > First question: Does such a thing exist? Where?Yes; Delta 3, Vonage, and a bunch of other companies that I can't rememeber off the top of my head do exactly this. /a
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Brian West wrote:> I think NuFone can do what you need contact sales@nufone.net > > I have inbound 800 service and outbound ld service with them.. > works great.And for local service, you do what? -- Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com
> I guess my question was a little deeper than that. > Can I simply ditch the PTSN?911 is the sticking point. Most commercial VoIP services come with the disclaimer that they are *not* a primary line replacement, precisely because of the liability issues associated with providing emergency services. For example, a typical configuration would be to not care where the caller is from, and simply route calls according to the country and city code, as appropriate. If you dump "911" into such a system, it has no way to route you to an appropriate operator. Sitting around in Indiana talking to a 911 operator in Los Angeles generally does you very little good. That said, in controlled environments, some services are now offering VoIP primary line replacements. The only service I currently know that is doing so is Vonage (http://www.vonage.com/), and it is doing so only in very specific markets at the moment. Further, the handling of 911 in their system is sub-optimal[1], in as much as it doesn't dump you into the normal 911 queue, and the PSAP will not have any information about your location. In, say, a medical emergency, I would far prefer to be talking about the emergency itself than trying to spell the name of my street. Until this tiny, possibly life-or-death detail gets sorted out, I'm probably going to have at least one traditional phone line at all times. /a [1] See http://www.vonage.com/small_business/features_911.php
pipe my local CO line into my * box with an X100P bkw On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Mike Ciholas wrote:> > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Brian West wrote: > > > I think NuFone can do what you need contact sales@nufone.net > > > > I have inbound 800 service and outbound ld service with them.. > > works great. > > And for local service, you do what? > > -- > Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice > CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax > 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com > Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com > >
At 04:48 PM 8/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:>Hmm, okay, so would it be possible to maintain *one* POTS line >that is used if anyone dials "911" on their desk phone (set this >up in * dial plan), then it connects to emergency services >properly, and then use a VoIP dial tone provider for *everything* >else? This assumes we are having only one emergency at a time!Yes, that would work fine.>Now, if that is possible, how does the VoIP dial tone provider >get my inbound local and toll calls? I would want my "local" >phone number to work, of course.You would need to redirect your local number to them. This ALWAYS assumes that the VoIP provider has a switch in your local CO or an agreement with someone who does. Vonage and Voicepulse, for example, do not have a presence in my area. I intend to maintain several POTS lines for incoming calls, and use a VoIP provider for all outgoing calls. --Ernest
This idea has been floating around in my head. I don't think the needed 'critical mass' has been reached, but I suspect at some point a co-op style arrangement could be reached. disclaimer: I have played with *, and am deploying Cisco Call Manager. I don't see any technical reason why the following would not work, but it is open for abuse, so there may be enough socio-political reasons to not even try. Ingredients: 1. A * server 2. A friend with an * server in another city/state/country 3. A way to locate like minded individuals/orginizations 4. Moderately over-built local PSTN connectivity Mix it together with a gentlemans agreement, or strongly worded contract. Co-ordinate or advertise local number ranges. Problems: People looking to save ~$30 per line won't be thrilled to order T1(s) to share with the co-op. Keeping a structured dial-plan to provide for reasonable overlap without massive meltdowns. There are many businesses springing up to fill this void, and they will be better suited to manage and grow the infrastructure. I've watched the discussions about IAX/SIP service providers, and most seem to be geared exclusively to the single user/line household. I know a number of small businesses that would jump to a VoIP carrier that allowed concurrent calls, heck my family has one. And I suspect that a number of the smaller/newer VoIP carriers might be entertaining partnerships with their competitors whose footprint compliments their own. Oh, and let's not forget that the traditional carriers are not ignorant of what is happening with VoIP or customer interest. There is no doubt that they are aware that if they don't find a way to deliver this service, someone else will. Dan (who, if he had a decent PSTN connected * box, would be willing to share) -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ciholas [mailto:mikec@ciholas.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:42 PM To: Ernest W. Lessenger Cc: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Ernest W. Lessenger wrote:> At 04:48 PM 8/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >Now, if that is possible, how does the VoIP dial tone provider > >get my inbound local and toll calls? I would want my "local" > >phone number to work, of course. > > You would need to redirect your local number to them. This > ALWAYS assumes that the VoIP provider has a switch in your > local CO or an agreement with someone who does. Vonage and > Voicepulse, for example, do not have a presence in my area. I > intend to maintain several POTS lines for incoming calls, and > use a VoIP provider for all outgoing calls.Oh well. I'm would expect no one would have presence here. This sounds so suboptimal, you have to provision *two* systems, one for inbound (local CO) and one for outbound (VoIP provider). Of course, the outbound can be just your internet connection, but this still seems annoying because most of the money is in the local CO service. Hmm, perhaps *all* incoming calls can be toll free? I would maintain the one local CO POTS line for 911 out bound, and then only use my toll free number for inbound. For the money I would save on local CO lines I can buy a *lot* of toll free minutes! Then the VoIP dial tone provider can route my toll free number to me over the internet. Presumably, then, there is no real limit on the number of "lines" coming in. It isn't hard coded like the CO lines are. This all seems pretty fanciful at the moment... -- Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
I was pretty sure you did, hence my use of 'most seem' -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy McNamara [mailto:jj@nufone.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:32 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? Dan Austin wrote:>I've watched the discussions about IAX/SIP service providers, and >most seem to be geared exclusively to the single user/line household. >I know a number of small businesses that would jump to a VoIP carrier >that allowed concurrent calls, heck my family has one. >NuFone doesn't restrict any number of simultaneous channels and we do have a wholesale platform we ~can~ offer. Jeremy McNamara _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Agreed. And a volunteer base to help the people willing to share their service with the steps to setup the configuration to be open to the rest of the co-op, but with enough security to guard against abuse. But just guessing at the number of people subscribed to this list, and noticing that this is a global audience, there already is an opportunity for small businesses to find 'a friend' in a country they do business and work out an agreement to share resources. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Ferrell [mailto:bferrell@baywinds.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:41 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? Gonna need a whole bunch of clear how-tos and folks willing to tell how it's done to reach critical mass Dan Austin wrote:> This idea has been floating around in my head. I don't think the > needed 'critical mass' has been reached, but I suspect at some > point a co-op style arrangement could be reached. > > disclaimer: > I have played with *, and am deploying Cisco Call Manager. > I don't see any technical reason why the following would not work, > but it is open for abuse, so there may be enough socio-political > reasons to not even try. > > Ingredients: > 1. A * server > 2. A friend with an * server in another city/state/country > 3. A way to locate like minded individuals/orginizations > 4. Moderately over-built local PSTN connectivity > > Mix it together with a gentlemans agreement, or strongly > worded contract. Co-ordinate or advertise local number ranges. > > > Problems: > People looking to save ~$30 per line won't be thrilled to > order T1(s) to share with the co-op. > Keeping a structured dial-plan to provide for reasonable > overlap without massive meltdowns. > There are many businesses springing up to fill this void, > and they will be better suited to manage and grow the infrastructure. > > I've watched the discussions about IAX/SIP service providers, and > most seem to be geared exclusively to the single user/line household. > I know a number of small businesses that would jump to a VoIP carrier > that allowed concurrent calls, heck my family has one. And I suspect > that a number of the smaller/newer VoIP carriers might be entertaining > partnerships with their competitors whose footprint compliments their > own. > > Oh, and let's not forget that the traditional carriers are not ignorant > of what is happening with VoIP or customer interest. There is no doubt > that they are aware that if they don't find a way to deliver this service, > someone else will. > > Dan (who, if he had a decent PSTN connected * box, would be willing to share) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ciholas [mailto:mikec@ciholas.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:42 PM > To: Ernest W. Lessenger > Cc: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? > > > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Ernest W. Lessenger wrote: > > >>At 04:48 PM 8/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>>Now, if that is possible, how does the VoIP dial tone provider >>>get my inbound local and toll calls? I would want my "local" >>>phone number to work, of course. >> >>You would need to redirect your local number to them. This >>ALWAYS assumes that the VoIP provider has a switch in your >>local CO or an agreement with someone who does. Vonage and >>Voicepulse, for example, do not have a presence in my area. I >>intend to maintain several POTS lines for incoming calls, and >>use a VoIP provider for all outgoing calls. > > > Oh well. I'm would expect no one would have presence here. > This sounds so suboptimal, you have to provision *two* systems, > one for inbound (local CO) and one for outbound (VoIP provider). > Of course, the outbound can be just your internet connection, but > this still seems annoying because most of the money is in the > local CO service. > > Hmm, perhaps *all* incoming calls can be toll free? I would > maintain the one local CO POTS line for 911 out bound, and then > only use my toll free number for inbound. For the money I would > save on local CO lines I can buy a *lot* of toll free minutes! > Then the VoIP dial tone provider can route my toll free number to > me over the internet. Presumably, then, there is no real limit > on the number of "lines" coming in. It isn't hard coded like the > CO lines are. > > This all seems pretty fanciful at the moment... >_______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Mike Ciholas [mailto:mikec@piano.ciholas.com] writes:> Oh well. I'm would expect no one would have presence here....> Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice > CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax > 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com > Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com
I think Jeff Pulver (pulver.com) was trying to do this with his Free World Dialup program at one point. Haven't been paying that much attention, though. You might poke around http://www.pulver.com/ to see if there's something there that interests you. /a> -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Austin [mailto:Dan_Austin@Phoenix.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 22:07 > To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? > > > This idea has been floating around in my head. I don't think the > needed 'critical mass' has been reached, but I suspect at some > point a co-op style arrangement could be reached. > > disclaimer: > I have played with *, and am deploying Cisco Call Manager. > I don't see any technical reason why the following would not work, > but it is open for abuse, so there may be enough socio-political > reasons to not even try. > > Ingredients: > 1. A * server > 2. A friend with an * server in another city/state/country > 3. A way to locate like minded individuals/orginizations > 4. Moderately over-built local PSTN connectivity > > Mix it together with a gentlemans agreement, or strongly > worded contract. Co-ordinate or advertise local number ranges. > > > Problems: > People looking to save ~$30 per line won't be thrilled to > order T1(s) to share with the co-op. > Keeping a structured dial-plan to provide for reasonable > overlap without massive meltdowns. > There are many businesses springing up to fill this void, > and they will be better suited to manage and grow the infrastructure. > > I've watched the discussions about IAX/SIP service providers, and > most seem to be geared exclusively to the single user/line household. > I know a number of small businesses that would jump to a VoIP carrier > that allowed concurrent calls, heck my family has one. And I suspect > that a number of the smaller/newer VoIP carriers might be entertaining > partnerships with their competitors whose footprint compliments their > own. > > Oh, and let's not forget that the traditional carriers are > not ignorant > of what is happening with VoIP or customer interest. There > is no doubt > that they are aware that if they don't find a way to deliver > this service, > someone else will. > > Dan (who, if he had a decent PSTN connected * box, would be > willing to share) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ciholas [mailto:mikec@ciholas.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:42 PM > To: Ernest W. Lessenger > Cc: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] VoIP dialtone? > > > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Ernest W. Lessenger wrote: > > > At 04:48 PM 8/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >Now, if that is possible, how does the VoIP dial tone provider > > >get my inbound local and toll calls? I would want my "local" > > >phone number to work, of course. > > > > You would need to redirect your local number to them. This > > ALWAYS assumes that the VoIP provider has a switch in your > > local CO or an agreement with someone who does. Vonage and > > Voicepulse, for example, do not have a presence in my area. I > > intend to maintain several POTS lines for incoming calls, and > > use a VoIP provider for all outgoing calls. > > Oh well. I'm would expect no one would have presence here. > This sounds so suboptimal, you have to provision *two* systems, > one for inbound (local CO) and one for outbound (VoIP provider). > Of course, the outbound can be just your internet connection, but > this still seems annoying because most of the money is in the > local CO service. > > Hmm, perhaps *all* incoming calls can be toll free? I would > maintain the one local CO POTS line for 911 out bound, and then > only use my toll free number for inbound. For the money I would > save on local CO lines I can buy a *lot* of toll free minutes! > Then the VoIP dial tone provider can route my toll free number to > me over the internet. Presumably, then, there is no real limit > on the number of "lines" coming in. It isn't hard coded like the > CO lines are. > > This all seems pretty fanciful at the moment... > > -- > Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 voice > CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax > 2626 Kotter Ave, Unit D mikec@ciholas.com > Evansville, IN 47715 http://www.ciholas.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users >