[llvm-dev] RFC: Moving toward Discord and Discourse for LLVM's discussions

Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev
2019-11-18T19:47:45Z

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 11:32 AM David Tellenbach via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
> +1 from my side for using "faster" or "more direct"
communication channels
> such
> as Discord (no strong opinion on the choice of any particular tool here)
> for
> informal chats and discussions on a "support level". This is
includes user
> questions but also questions that can be easily answered using community
> knowledge. I think of things like "How to I build clang for option
abc" or
> "How do I access all instructions in a basic block?"
>
> Strong -1 for any attempts to replace the mailing list (but no strong
> opinion on
> providing additional possibilities to interact with it, such as mirrored
> forums
> etc.) as primary and definitive communication channel.
>
> It should be absolutely enough to follow llvm-dev to be completely informed
> about any major RFC, discussion or design decisions.
>

If your concern is to be able to stay informed by email, then subscribing
to the right "category" on Discourse should provide exactly this
(everyone
can select their notification preferences on Discourse).
Is there something more you need that I missed?

Best,

--
Mehdi




>
>     David
>
> On 18. Nov 2019, at 08:48, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> *Short version:*I've set up an LLVM Discord server for real time chat
> (similar to IRC) and an LLVM Discourse server for forums (similar to email
> lists):
> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>
> Please join and use these new services. They are only partially set up and
> still very new, so don't hesitate to improve them and/or reach out to
this
> thread with any issues you see or things you want to fix. Also, both
> services have dedicated feedback channels.
>
> Do feel free to use Discourse for technical discussions, although try not
> to create duplicate discussions (any more than you would between the lists
> and Bugzilla) and make sure the people you're having the discussion
with
> are fine using Discourse instead of the email list. In case Discourse
> doesn't work out, we'll collect and archive everything so it
isn't lost.
>
>
> *Longer version & more details:*During this year's Women in
Compilers and
> Tools meeting, folks expressed very clearly that our communication systems
> cause a non-trivial amount of friction for new people trying to find out
> about, learn, or contribute to LLVM. Both IRC for chatting and mailing
> lists for longer-form discussions are unfamiliar, difficult, and often
> intimidating for newcomers. While I have long been a fan and resistant to
> change in these areas, the feedback from folks at WiCT was compelling and
> important for us as a community to address. Even if it means I have to let
> go of my precious IRC. ;]
>
> We talked to a bunch of people and looked at the options out there and the
> most promising ones were Discord for chatting and Discourse for longer-form
> discussions. Meike and I have set up both an initial Discord and Discourse
> server. You can find them here:
> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>
> There is still a lot of work to be done. Notably, it'd be great for
folks
> to clean up and improve the summaries for each of the groups in Discourse,
> and I'll be asking various people to help moderate on both Discourse
and
> Discord. If you'd like to help out with a specific set of improvements
to
> these, don't hesitate to reach out to me or Meike and we can get you
set
> up. Some specific things we're already working on:
>
>    - Getting Discord verified with a nice URL.
>    - Archives of mailing lists on Discourse so you can search in one
>    place, etc.
>       - See the plan here:
>
https://llvm.discourse.group/t/mirroring-and-archiving-llvm-mailing-lists-on-discourse/61
>    - Moving Discourse to forums.llvm.org.
>    - Documenting the best way to move to Discourse while preserving a
>    similarly email-focused workflow.
>
>
> We're just adding these for now, but I'd like people to seriously
try
> using them. While IRC has served us fairly well, I think it is one of the
> bigger barriers to entry. Our email lists are more effective, but also have
> had serious infrastructure challenges over the years: a constant flow of
> spam, bouncing for several major email providers, etc. Discourse has very
> powerful email-based workflows available and I think we should seriously
> consider moving to Discourse long-term instead of the email lists.
>
> I also want to say thanks to all the folks at the WiCT workshop for giving
> me and others feedback. I was pretty set in my ways around these kind of
> things, but hearing the kinds of challenges this has posed to people less
> established in the community was a real eye opener. It takes a lot to speak
> up like this, and I really appreciate it. I hope this also helps start to
> address these long-standing issues. Also a huge thanks to Tanya for
> organizing the WICT workshop and Meike for helping drive this message home
> to me and doing a bunch of the work getting these things set up. I
wouldn't
> have been able to do it without her help, especially around Discord bots.
>
> -Chandler
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