[Icecast] Using Icecast relay function with dynamic IP at remote source end

Jack Elliott
Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:50:36 -0000

Right, BUTT can be set to push to studio, and studio's IP is fixed.

It doesn't appear that Icecast Master can push to a Slave at studio,
Slave at studio has to pull from Master, and Master's IP address is not
fixed. So for our remotes, BUTT is the better choice for that, and all
the other reasons you mention.

Plus, when you are recording eight bands in a 12-hour broadcast day,
BUTT's ability to stop the local dump-file/recording, save it, and start
a new recording with a different name, all without stopping the stream,
is a real plus when all those bands want recordings of their sets.
Darkice has to be stopped and a new dump-file name put into the config
file for each band, which kills the stream and makes listeners sad. Or
you get back to the station with a 12-hour-long mp3 that you have to
edit down into band-set lengths.

That said, at the station, where we are running BUTT on a very
low-horsepower Linux box to send the station's "Listen Live"
stream to
our Icecast hosting company, I am considering using Darkice + Icecast on
a Raspberry Pi 3 which has more than enough horsepower for that
function. The station has a fixed IP so we can point their Slave to our
Master.

Thanks for all the tips here.

--
That Jack Elliott
(541) 848 7021
KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
Producer, The Wednesday Point
Host, The Sunday Classics

On 4/20/2017 4:30 PM, Robert Jeffares wrote:
>
>
> It does not matter what IP BUTT has, it sends to the fixed IP at the
> studio on port [ 8000 ] with a mount like /liveBroadcast.mp3
>
>
> On 21/04/17 11:05, Jack Elliott wrote:
>>
>> Ha! Terms even a broadcaster can understand! Many many thanks.
>>
>> If BUTT is considered to be as good a transporter as Icecast, then I
>> will stick with what I'm doing, if for no other reason than,
"Master
>> is the source server (where the source comes from) and Slave is the
>> relay. THe connection is initiated by the slave to the master."
>>
>> Slave may not know where the Master is. Master (on a table in front
>> of me at a remote music event) may be at unknown/dynamic IP address.
>> I'd have to find my IP address, Teamview into the server computer
at
>> the station, stop the Icecast service, edit icecast.xml with my
>> current IP address, and re-start the Icecast service.
>>
>> Is there any way to "push" a connection from Master to Slave?
Slave
>> is at a fixed IP address.
>>
>> --
>> That Jack Elliott
>> (541) 848 7021
>> KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
>> Producer, The Wednesday Point
>> Host, The Sunday Classics
>> On 4/19/2017 8:47 PM, David Saunders wrote:
>>> ok let see if I can translate it to broadcaster terms for ya :)
>>>
>>> A icecast server can be set up to accept direct source connection.
>>> ie dark ice( which i do agree runs better on the  machine where
>>> icecast server is. ) I do use it to trans-code the mount to
>>> different encoding.
>>>
>>> THe icecast server can also set up as a relay, where it pulls in
>>> from the another server.  Primary used to pull the stream from a
>>> icecast server. Then make it available to be acceded by clients
from
>>> it mounts.
>>>
>>> But, BUTT is designed to stream to an icecast server, and does very
>>> well.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.1/relaying.html
>>>
>>> Master is the source server (where the source comes from) ad Slave
>>> is the relay. THe connection is initiated by the slave to the
master.
>>>
>>> BUTT ---MASTER ========= SLAVE ===== Clients
>>> --- can be local host or lan or wan  private or public
>>>
>>> == is public connections wans/lans/...
>>>
>>> If you need more bandwidth you can setup/rent other SLAVEs on other
>>> networks to augment you bandwidth.
>>>
>>> It lot easier to have 1 master and bunch of slaves to spreading the
>>> bandwidth out,  It easier to maintain a single master with many
>>> mounts + it easy to trace problems down with sources going to a
>>> common Master.
>>>
>>> I tend to diverge from your question a bit.   But, your encoder
>>> should work find with broadcaster to the icecast server by itself.
I
>>> have had it done for the past 10 years. The only real issue s when
>>> you encode the stream higher then what he bandwidth can handle.
>>>  remember the source clients use the UPLOAD speed of you connection
>>> and the client use the UPLOAD speeds. In the USA it no uncommon to
>>> have uploads speeds to be far slower then you can download. Also I
>>> am talking about how fast the connection is not how much data you
>>> have in a month. It get really confusing when you talk about
>>> bandwidth, since they call both bandwidths.One is how big your pipe
>>> is and other how much you get through the pipe in a given time.
>>>
>>> Lot of the extra above fore those reading this and nee d a little
>>> more clarity :)
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> SLAVE looks a the master waiting for something to do. When it sees
>>> the mount it relays it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Jack Elliott
>>> <thatjackelliott at kpov.org <mailto:thatjackelliott at
kpov.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     /I made an error, I swapped two diagrams, it should be this:/
>>>
>>>     Here's how I've been doing it:
>>>
>>>     BUTT ===> WAN ===> Icecast server
>>>
>>>     I thought I might try this instead:
>>>
>>>     BUTT --> localhost Icecast server ===> WAN ===>
Icecast server
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     That Jack Elliott
>>>     (541) 848 7021 <tel:%28541%29%20848-7021>
>>>     KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
>>>     Producer, The Wednesday Point
>>>     Host, The Sunday Classics
>>>
>>>     On 4/19/2017 4:00 PM, Jack Elliott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi David, I don't think we will necessarily be on wifi,
I'm
>>>>     sorry if I implied that. There are a couple of events each
year
>>>>     when we have to use wifi, but for those I have a dedicated
>>>>     access point running at close to 1 watt connected directly
to
>>>>     our ISP's network.
>>>>
>>>>     Okay, I was told over on the Darkice listserv that using
>>>>     Darkice > WAN > Icecast is not very reliable, and my
testing
>>>>     supported that statement. They said that Darkice is an
encoder,
>>>>     and Icecast is a transporter. Icecast, they said, is very
>>>>     reliable, Darkice is a good encoder but not too great as a
>>>>     transporter.
>>>>
>>>>     I've been using BUTT as the encoder at the remote
(audio
>>>>     source) end, and sending the stream over the WAN to the
Icecast
>>>>     server at the station building. BUTT, I found, is more
reliable
>>>>     than Darkice at the encoding end.
>>>>
>>>>     Here's how I've been doing it:
>>>>
>>>>     BUTT --> localhost Icecast server ===> WAN ===>
Icecast server
>>>>
>>>>     I thought I might try this instead:
>>>>
>>>>     BUTT ===> WAN ===> Icecast server
>>>>
>>>>     Now here I want to avoid using incorrect terminology. The
way I
>>>>     am using the word "remote" is how it is used in
broadcast: if a
>>>>     crew leaves the building to broadcast an event occurring
>>>>     outside the station somewhere, they are doing a remote.
>>>>
>>>>     So in my case, the "remote" is at the music
festival - my audio
>>>>     source.
>>>>
>>>>     So when you write, "The relay easiest to configured in
a pull
>>>>     configuration. Where the setting are setup on the remote
>>>>     server." -- is it correct for me to interpret that to
mean that
>>>>     I can leave the settings on the station computer's
server
>>>>     alone, just set up the server in my remote kit to
"pull" from
>>>>     the station's server?
>>>>
>>>>     I am puzzled by "pull," since I am wanting to
send audio from
>>>>     me to the station, but that's pulling?
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     That Jack Elliott
>>>>     (541) 848 7021 <tel:%28541%29%20848-7021>
>>>>     KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
>>>>     Producer, The Wednesday Point
>>>>     Host, The Sunday Classics
>>>>     On 4/19/2017 10:26 AM, David Saunders wrote:
>>>>>     Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>>       The relay easiest to configured in a pull
configuration.
>>>>>     Where the setting are setup on the remote server.
>>>>>
>>>>>        Since the client is on WiFi, you will have lots of
issues
>>>>>     streaming due to the ever changing wifi environment.
My
>>>>>     suggestion is source the stream at the lowest settings
for
>>>>>     encoding you can live with, This will keep the
bandwidth down
>>>>>     and less likely burp on you.
>>>>>
>>>>>       We do have clients who use WiFi and set the the
encoding to
>>>>>     smallest size for the content being recorded. Most of
the time
>>>>>     since its voice content we really don't have to go
super high
>>>>>     on the encoding.
>>>>>
>>>>>      I have set up the relay to supplement our bandwidth
when we
>>>>>     think it will be over the limit.  Just remember you
need to
>>>>>     give the listeners the remote server connection info
not the
>>>>>     local server.
>>>>>
>>>>>       Why it would be better? not sure why, but if the
icecast
>>>>>     server is set with a larger buffer, it will buffer thru
the
>>>>>     disconnects of the source.
>>>>>
>>>>>     David.
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Marvin Scholz
>>>>>     <epirat07 at gmail.com <mailto:epirat07 at
gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 19 Apr 2017, at 16:20, Jack Elliott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>             For our community radio station's live
music festivals
>>>>>             broadcasts, we set up a small broadcast studio
at the
>>>>>             festival's venue, and use B.U.T.T. to send
a stream to
>>>>>             an Icecast server located at the radio
station's building.
>>>>>
>>>>>             REMOTE LOCATION STATION BUILDING
>>>>>             B.U.T.T.         ======= WAN =======>>
ICECAST SERVER
>>>>>
>>>>>             It's pretty reliable, though BUTT does
sometimes lose
>>>>>             connection, probably due to network congestion.
>>>>>
>>>>>             The folks on the Darkice listserv claim that
using
>>>>>             Icecast to do the sending provides a more
reliable
>>>>>             connection. So I want to try this idea:
>>>>>
>>>>>             REMOTE LOCATION         STATION BUILDING
>>>>>             B.U.T.T. --> Icecast on localhost  ==== WAN
====>>
>>>>>             ICECAST SERVER
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         I am not sure how this could be more reliable than
BUTT alone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>             I'm finding the terminology for setting up
a relay (on
>>>>>
http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.0/config-file.html#relay
>>>>>
<http://icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.4.0/config-file.html#relay>)
>>>>>             to be a bit confusing and could use some help.
>>>>>
>>>>>             I believe I want to set up a Specific
Mountpoint
>>>>>             Relay. It's where the IP addresses get
plugged in that
>>>>>             I need some clarification. The IP address for
the
>>>>>             building is static, but the IP address for the
remote
>>>>>             server is unknown before every festival, and
may be
>>>>>             dynamic.
>>>>>
>>>>>             The documentation says that for the
<relay> section of
>>>>>             the xml, we have a
<server>127.0.0.1</server> setting.
>>>>>             And that is described as "This is the IP
for the
>>>>>             server which contains the mountpoint to be
relayed."
>>>>>
>>>>>             I can't tell whether the <relay? section
is on the
>>>>>             remote server, in which case we only need to
put the
>>>>>             static IP of the building in the <server>
section, or
>>>>>             whether the <relay> section is on the
building's
>>>>>             server, in which case we need to know ahead of
time
>>>>>             what our remote IP will be, and hope it
doesn't change
>>>>>             during the festival.
>>>>>
>>>>>             I hope this question makes sense. My confusion
is
>>>>>             clearly because I am unclear which server
(remote or
>>>>>             building) the <relay> section applies to.
>>>>>
>>>>>             --
>>>>>             That Jack Elliott
>>>>>             (541) 848 7021
<tel:%28541%29%20848%207021>
>>>>>             KPOV 88.9 FM High Desert Community radio
>>>>>             Producer, The Wednesday Point
>>>>>             Host, The Sunday Classics
>>>>>             _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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