On 4/29/21 10:34 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:> On 4/27/21 11:45 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > > <snip> >> In other words, both of the following are true (IMHO): >> >> A. Johnny's rigorous statement of what CentOS now is (or yours, it >> doesn't actually matter who rigorously states it, but Johnny's seemed to >> really cover all aspects - maybe it's just my reading though) >> >> B. "CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise Linux" statement is >> not true as far as new releases are concerned, i.e. not true to build >> one's future on it >> >> >> >> But as everyone is agreed it is counter productive to ponder these >> things, I will end my side of it by reiterating: >> > > As was stated at Red hat summit though .. while Stream will not be a > copy of the downstream RHEL code anymore .. it WILL BE extreamly similar > to RHEL + a couple months. In fact at 8.4 release .. Stream is very > similar t0 RHEL 8.4 with NO WAITING. CentOS Linux 8 getting upgraded to > the 8.4 source code, tested, isos created, etc .. will take a month or > so, Stream already has all that content in it RIGHT NOW. >Yes, this all sounds nice, but not good enough if you put yourself in my shoes when I suggest my user: A. "I am going to install CentOS which is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise", so whatever works on RedHat Enterprise will work on CentOS [implying my reputation behind merely an ability to install binary packages and common sense of what binary files are there on both systems in questions] B. There is CentOS which is promised (I am borrowing your phrasing here) "WILL BE extreamly similar to RHEL + a couple months" but in the second case I can not put my reputation at stake and finish my phrase with "whatever works on RedHat Enterprise will work on CentOS". So my latest phrasing to my users/machine owners - which I can put my reputation behind - is: I am going to install Debian for you, and as in the past whatever works on some Linux I should be able to make work on your Debian machine. The last I can put my reputation behind, and my user knows it might not be as simple as installing binary packages known to work on RedHat Enterprise, and knows there will be some effort/time on my side involved. My apologies for breaking my promise to stop pondering the issue ;-( Valeri> I think that is a positive , not a negative. > > <snip> > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On 4/29/21 10:51 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:> > > On 4/29/21 10:34 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: >> On 4/27/21 11:45 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote: >> >> >> <snip> >>> In other words, both of the following are true (IMHO): >>> >>> A. Johnny's rigorous statement of what CentOS now is (or yours, it >>> doesn't actually matter who rigorously states it, but Johnny's seemed to >>> really cover all aspects - maybe it's just my reading though) >>> >>> B. "CentOS is binary replica of RedHat Enterprise Linux" statement is >>> not true as far as new releases are concerned, i.e. not true to build >>> one's future on it >>> >>> >>> >>> But as everyone is agreed it is counter productive to ponder these >>> things, I will end my side of it by reiterating: >>> >> >> As was stated at Red hat summit though .. while Stream will not be a >> copy of the downstream RHEL code anymore .. it WILL BE extreamly similar >> to RHEL + a couple months.? In fact at 8.4 release .. Stream is very >> similar t0 RHEL 8.4 with NO WAITING.? CentOS Linux 8 getting upgraded to >> the 8.4 source code, tested, isos created, etc .. will take a month or >> so, Stream already has all that content in it RIGHT NOW. >> > > Yes, this all sounds nice, but not good enough if you put yourself in my > shoes when I suggest my user: > > A. "I am going to install CentOS which is binary replica of RedHat > Enterprise", so whatever works on RedHat Enterprise will work on CentOS > [implying my reputation behind merely an ability to install binary > packages and common sense of what binary files are there on both systems > in questions] > > B. There is CentOS which is promised (I am borrowing your phrasing here) > "WILL BE extreamly similar to RHEL + a couple months" > > but in the second? case I can not put my reputation at stake and finish > my phrase with "whatever works on RedHat Enterprise will work on CentOS". > > So my latest phrasing to my users/machine owners - which I can put my > reputation behind - is: > > I am going to install Debian for you, and as in the past whatever works > on some Linux I should be able to make work on your Debian machine. > > The last I can put my reputation behind, and my user knows it might not > be as simple as installing binary packages known to work on RedHat > Enterprise, and knows there will be some effort/time on my side involved. > > > My apologies for breaking my promise to stop pondering the issue ;-( > > Valeri > >> I think that is a positive , not a negative. >> >> <snip>And as I have said several times .. if you (or anyone else) thinks something works better or Stream does not work for you, that is fine. Use what you want or like. We make what we make. If one can use it, great. If not, that's great as well. This is opening up the RHEL creation process in an unbelievable way to community involvement. I an proud to have been involved in mkae this process so open. I think CentOS Stream is a much more community project that CentOS Linux ever was. I also think it is better for the open source community and Linux distros in general. For people whole don't think this, we can agree to disagree. it does not make either of us right or wrong.
On 4/29/21 8:51 AM, Valeri Galtsev wrote:> but in the second? case I can not put my reputation at stake and > finish my phrase with "whatever works on RedHat Enterprise will work > on CentOS".Why do you think that?? Are RHEL (and CentOS) point releases backward compatible or not?? If you trust point releases to work, why would you hesitate to trust a distribution that resembles an upcoming point release? (And if you don't trust point releases, why would you use the OS at all?)