CentOS - Jan 2021 - CentOS Stream suitability as a production webserver

> On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 11:17, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch>
wrote:
>
>> > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:50, Simon Matter <simon.matter at
invoca.ch>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Am 06.01.21 um 03:01 schrieb Scott Robbins:
>> >> >> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +0000, Jamie
Burchell wrote:
>> >> >>> Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has
to be a manual
>> process
>> >> of
>> >> >>> destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even
Microsoft has gone
>> the
>> >> >>> Apple
>> >> >>> way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm not sure how it will go. Fedora now has a
very good upgrade
>> tool
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> has worked for me through a few versions.  So,
hopefully, RH, and
>> >> CentOS
>> >> >> will have one too, who knows, maybe in time to
migrate to
>> Stream-9.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Fedora's package set is quite "stable". You
can expect that a
>> package
>> >> is
>> >> > in the next release. This is not so valid for EL.
Deprecated
>> packages
>> >> > (ImageMagick in EL7 but not in EL8) make such upgrade
path
>> difficult
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> It's anyway hard to understand how an enterprise grade
Linux can be
>> >> shipped without things like ImageMagick or Tomcat. For quite
some
>> time
>> >> now
>> >> it gives me the impression that we're not the targeted
audience
>> anymore.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > The issue is that 'Enterprise' is an overloaded term
without the
>> nuance
>> it
>> > needs. In the 'small' enterprise you have a lot of use of
ImageMagick
>> and
>> > TomCat. In the large enterprise of 100,000+ servers.. it
isn't. As
>> more
>> of
>> > the large enterprises moved into RHEL, the amount of usage for a
lot
>> of
>> > 'leaf' programs became rounding errors without enough
usage to justify
>> the
>> > bug-fixing needed when compared to the load of
>> bugfixing/enhancements/etc
>> > in the 100k customers.
>>
>> Thanks for confirming that RHEL is the wrong OS for SME businesses
these
>> days. It's not really good for SME servers and not really good for
SME
>> clients. Something between Fedora and RHEL could be it but it
doesn't
>> exist.
>>
>>
> I didn't say or mean that. My answer is that it is complicated and more
> meant that the software you expect requires more than the industry in
> general is willing to pay to keep going. 10-20 years ago they were and so
> the software was able to be 'mainstream'. As less people use it,
and less
> people are willing to pay for its maintenance the harder it is to keep
> 'running safely'. Tomcat and Imagemagick have had a LOT of severe
security
I'd like to correct myself, ImageMagick was not simply removed but
replaced by GraphicsMagick. From what I read it should be a usable
solution as it's a fork from IM.

For the Tomcat thing, I don't agree. Tomcat is widely used and I think the
security concerns are not the real reason to remove it. It more likely
that RedHat simply likes to sell more JBoss EAP. It's their right to do so
but it's a removal of important functionality of the base RHEL package.

Regards,
Simon

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 12:42, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch>
wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 11:17, Simon Matter <simon.matter at
invoca.ch>
> wrote:
> >
> >> > On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:50, Simon Matter <simon.matter at
invoca.ch>
> >> wrote:
>
> > I didn't say or mean that. My answer is that it is complicated and
more
> > meant that the software you expect requires more than the industry in
> > general is willing to pay to keep going. 10-20 years ago they were and
so
> > the software was able to be 'mainstream'. As less people use
it, and less
> > people are willing to pay for its maintenance the harder it is to keep
> > 'running safely'. Tomcat and Imagemagick have had a LOT of
severe
> security
>
> I'd like to correct myself, ImageMagick was not simply removed but
> replaced by GraphicsMagick. From what I read it should be a usable
> solution as it's a fork from IM.
>
> For the Tomcat thing, I don't agree. Tomcat is widely used and I think
the
> security concerns are not the real reason to remove it. It more likely
> that RedHat simply likes to sell more JBoss EAP. It's their right to do
so
> but it's a removal of important functionality of the base RHEL package.
>
>
I honestly have no idea how much Tomcat is used anymore. The various places
that I worked previously or have contacts with have killed it off by moving
whatever used it to external cloud services versus JBOSS or anything else.
That is just an anecdata but it is all I have on the subject.


> Regards,
> Simon
>
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.