CentOS - Jan 2021 - CentOS Stream suitability as a production webserver

> Am 06.01.21 um 03:01 schrieb Scott Robbins:
>> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +0000, Jamie Burchell wrote:
>>> Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has to be a manual
process of
>>> destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even Microsoft has gone
the
>>> Apple
>>> way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now.
>>
>> I'm not sure how it will go. Fedora now has a very good upgrade
tool
>> that
>> has worked for me through a few versions.  So, hopefully, RH, and
CentOS
>> will have one too, who knows, maybe in time to migrate to Stream-9.
>>
>
> Fedora's package set is quite "stable". You can expect that a
package is
> in the next release. This is not so valid for EL. Deprecated packages
> (ImageMagick in EL7 but not in EL8) make such upgrade path difficult ...
It's anyway hard to understand how an enterprise grade Linux can be
shipped without things like ImageMagick or Tomcat. For quite some time now
it gives me the impression that we're not the targeted audience anymore.

That's really sad because the competitors still include such important
software as first class citizens. Maybe our requirements are just too old
school?

Simon

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 07:50, Simon Matter <simon.matter at invoca.ch>
wrote:
> > Am 06.01.21 um 03:01 schrieb Scott Robbins:
> >> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 11:31:34PM +0000, Jamie Burchell wrote:
> >>> Off topic for sure, but it's a shame this has to be a
manual process of
> >>> destroying and rebuilding every X years. Even Microsoft has
gone the
> >>> Apple
> >>> way and just perpetually updates Windows 10 now.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how it will go. Fedora now has a very good
upgrade tool
> >> that
> >> has worked for me through a few versions.  So, hopefully, RH, and
CentOS
> >> will have one too, who knows, maybe in time to migrate to
Stream-9.
> >>
> >
> > Fedora's package set is quite "stable". You can expect
that a package is
> > in the next release. This is not so valid for EL. Deprecated packages
> > (ImageMagick in EL7 but not in EL8) make such upgrade path difficult
...
>
> It's anyway hard to understand how an enterprise grade Linux can be
> shipped without things like ImageMagick or Tomcat. For quite some time now
> it gives me the impression that we're not the targeted audience
anymore.
>
>
The issue is that 'Enterprise' is an overloaded term without the nuance
it
needs. In the 'small' enterprise you have a lot of use of ImageMagick
and
TomCat. In the large enterprise of 100,000+ servers.. it isn't. As more of
the large enterprises moved into RHEL, the amount of usage for a lot of
'leaf' programs became rounding errors without enough usage to justify
the
bug-fixing needed when compared to the load of bugfixing/enhancements/etc
in the 100k customers.

> That's really sad because the competitors still include such important
> software as first class citizens. Maybe our requirements are just too old
> school?
>
>
An additional problem is a generational one. We have a lot of programs
which do various things 'well' enough written 10-30 years ago, and we of
a
certain age use them for the hammers to every nail problem. However, the
problems fleets of 100k systems have are more welding versus hammering. So
we are in a situation where we do need to retrain some of our hammers to be
rivet guns. There is also a similar industry problem that anything older
than 2 years ago is not sexy anymore because VC and investors aren't going
to dump money into it. [You see a similar issue in the various 'popular
mechanics' press that all homes in the next generation will only be built
with metal and hammers and wood are a thing of the past. What you see
instead is a wave of it and then a realization that you end up needing to
do a little of each.]


> Simon
>
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.