Am 08.01.22 um 05:27 schrieb Dave McGuire:> trying to mess with other peoples' stuff.? I run fail2ban to catch those > log entries and block the source IP address for a month on the first > failed login.? At any one time I have between 12,000 and 15,000well, I don't know how _your_ users are connected to the internet, but in germany most people has at least daily changing IPs out of larger pools (when connected via xDSL) or even sometimes shares ip-addresses with others (when connected via tv-cable or mobile - having a private network-address, which is natted), so it's possible to get/use an IP, which was used before by some script-kiddies... so everyone, who's blocking such requests for more than some minutes/hours should be aware of maybe blocking legitimate user-logins... btw.: setting up a new mail-client and making any mistake by reading it from old install or writing it into new install also leads to a months-blocking with above restrictive handling... (any may drive this user mad) so anyone, who has no experience with blocking should be really careful with it. d.
On 08/01/2022 14:26, dc-ml at dvl.werbittewas.de wrote:> > Am 08.01.22 um 05:27 schrieb Dave McGuire: > >> trying to mess with other peoples' stuff.? I run fail2ban to catch those >> log entries and block the source IP address for a month on the first >> failed login.? At any one time I have between 12,000 and 15,000 > well, I don't know how _your_ users are connected to the internet, but > in germany most people has at least daily changing IPs out of larger > pools (when connected via xDSL) or even sometimes shares ip-addresses > with others (when connected via tv-cable or mobile - having a private > network-address, which is natted), so it's possible to get/use an IP, > which was used before by some script-kiddies... > > so everyone, who's blocking such requests for more than some > minutes/hours should be aware of maybe blocking legitimate user-logins... > > btw.: setting up a new mail-client and making any mistake by reading it > from old install or writing it into new install also leads to a > months-blocking with above restrictive handling... > (any may drive this user mad) > > so anyone, who has no experience with blocking should be really careful > with it. > > d.yes, blocking on the first wrong password sounds like overkill. But it does depend on user base. For a small mail server with few known users it could be workable. But even on small servers I'd recommend blocking for a small time (like up to an hour) after a small number of failures (example 3). Then if this pattern repeats (for example 3 times) within a longer period (for example up to a day), blocking for a longer period (example 1 week) using the recidive jail. Mileage will vary depending on user base and number of support requests generated. The point about fail2ban is that it slows down attackers stopping infinite and fast repeating attacks from the same ip. That should be in combination with a good password policy which reduces the probability of any single attack guessing the password. It doesn't necessarily have to zero out attacks. As Dave has experimented, to bypass fail2ban all the attacker has to do is use a different ip. 10-15K blocks in place at any time seem very high compared to the few attacks I see. I'd hazard a guess that the restrictive fail2ban policy is causing the attacker(s) to try immediately from a new ip and isn't generating a great deal more security than a slightly less restrictive policy which lures the attacker into trying a few times more from the same ip with longer intervals between the attempts. John
On 1/8/22 8:26 AM, dc-ml at dvl.werbittewas.de wrote:>> trying to mess with other peoples' stuff.? I run fail2ban to catch those >> log entries and block the source IP address for a month on the first >> failed login.? At any one time I have between 12,000 and 15,000 > > well, I don't know how _your_ users are connected to the internet, but > in germany most people has at least daily changing IPs out of larger > pools (when connected via xDSL) or even sometimes shares ip-addresses > with others (when connected via tv-cable or mobile - having a private > network-address, which is natted), so it's possible to get/use an IP, > which was used before by some script-kiddies...Obviously. However, my users are nearly all on static IP addresses.> btw.: setting up a new mail-client and making any mistake by reading it > from old install or writing it into new install also leads to a > months-blocking with above restrictive handling... > (any may drive this user mad)Again, "obviously". May mail server is not new; I was not the OP on this thread who came here looking for help.> so anyone, who has no experience with blocking should be really careful > with it.That's good advice for everything, not just blocking. My first experience with blocking was on a Cisco AGS in 1994, buddy. Not a n00b. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA