On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 9:08 AM Paul McNary <pmcnary at cameron.net>
wrote:
> I think you can pay XinuOS to support FreeBSD in a LTS situation.
> It is just like linux where you have to pay Red Hat, Suse, etc.
> They break things even with point releases. Suse majorly
> screwed with video drivers back in the 9.x series. Totally
> broke major release. Their answer then was pay us or
> re-install bare metal and figure it out on your own.
> Other wise linux has always been, you get what you get for free.
> BSD is the same. If you are lucky some one like red hat, suse, XinuOS
> will be supporting and make their notes public, otherwise the
> OSS model doesn't include anything more than community support
> for what ever that is worth.
> I just upgraded a system from FreeBSD 9.x to 12.x, it took 2 weeks and
> several incremental upgrades sometimes to multiple point releases
> with in a major release. There is nothing really for free.
>
>
> On 8/25/2018 7:47 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:16 AM Johannes Lundberg <johalun0 at
gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 00:25 blubee blubeeme <gurenchan at
gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:08 AM Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav <des at
des.no>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> blubee blubeeme <gurenchan at gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>> True on both points my tone is just a reflection of
attitudes of the
> >>>>> individuals that I am currently addressing.
> >>>> Well, congratulations on alienating absolutely everybody
you have
> >>>> interacted with on this topic.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Some people enjoy making contributions w/o waving a
banner constantly
> >>>>> wanting acknowledgement, a pat on the head and good
job from
> everyone.
> >>>> The only person I see constantly craving attention and
validation from
> >>>> others here is you.
> >>>>
> >>>>> How far will core FreeBSD bend over backwards to
accommodate these
> >>>>> devs.
> >>>> The core team does not decide what goes into the tree or
not. The
> >>>> developers do.
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is the beauty of an open source project, we bring
the best to
> the
> >>>>> table, [...]
> >>>> Who exactly is ?we? here? You are not a member of the
project, you do
> >>>> not speak for the project, and after seeing how you treat
our fellow
> >>>> developers, our friends, most of us want nothing to do
with you. If
> >>>> can't live with that, I'm sure you can figure out
how to install
> Linux.
> >>>>
> >>>> DES
> >>>> --
> >>>> Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav - des at des.no
> >>>
> >>> Some on here want to attack my personality because they think
that I am
> >>> abrasive, fine but that's not the issue.
> >>>
> >>> Some claim that they run the code and it works wonderful for
them with
> no
> >>> issues, again that's lovely keep on running the code.
> >>>
> >>> Nevertheless let me restate the point that you guys are all
seeming
> to
> >>> miss; If you can go out and build custom kernels with custom
options
> and
> >>> out of mainline tree that's fine, keep doing that until
you have
> something
> >>> that's production ready and as easy to install as the rest
of FreeBSD
> >>> system.
> >>>
> >>> The graphics stack on FreeBSD is pretty bad as it stands but
all the
> >>> documentation currently out there is about using it as it
stands now.
> >>>
> >>> Why do you need to rip out the current graphics drivers which
will
> break
> >>> systems for the vast majority of silent users who will not
complain and
> >>> just leave?
> >>>
> >>> ---- A little background ----
> >>> Do you know why Samsung, Motorola, Sony, LG, Nokia, etc...
never update
> >>> their phones to the latest android version?
> >>>
> >>> It's because the Linux kernel is such a mess they know
it's a waste of
> >>> resources to try. You should not have to ask how or why I know
this
> but if
> >>> it's unclear I was in the field.
> >>> -----------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Now you guys who claim to only be hobbyist doing this in their
free
> time
> >>> expect to maintain this when those companies with all their
resources
> >>> cannot?
> >>>
> >>> Those 30,000 ports many of them bring bugs with them because
of this
> >>> Linuxkpi stuff. Just recently there was a user who said google
earth
> >>> doesn't work the answer was it doesn't work and
that's that.
> >>>
> >>> They get ported and then get dropped so while the ports tree
is large,
> if
> >>> you actually try to use some of those programs they are
broken,
> >>> maintenance
> >>> hell for the developers and confusion for the users.
> >>>
> >>> Johannes Lundberg I know that you are one of the main working
on this
> >>> linuxkpi stuff but anyone else is free to answer as well.
> >>>
> >>> Let's have an open discussion why do you need to remove
the current
> >>> graphics stack to continue with your work?
> >>
> >> This has been discussed over and over on the mailing list and I
don?t
> >> think anyone wants to do it over again so please feel free to
search the
> >> archives.
> >>
> >> You?re misinformed. We are not removing anything for anyone. We
are
> moving
> >> it to ports.
> >> ?pkg install drm-legacy-kmod? will install those drivers for you
that
> were
> >> earlier in base. I thought we have been clear about this but maybe
we
> >> haven?t been clear enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> freebsd-current at freebsd.org mailing list
> >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
> >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-current-unsubscribe at freebsd.org
> >>> "
> >>>
> >> Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff done any
> testings
> > of how this will affect current users?
> >
> > 1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and
> > working.
> > 2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port
> > 3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes
> >
> > How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and
> running?
> >
> > Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how
> it'll
> > affect users.
> >
> > You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come
with;
> > it works for us hobbyists.
> > Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff?
> >
> > You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you
tested it?
> > _______________________________________________
> > freebsd-stable at freebsd.org mailing list
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe at
freebsd.org
> "
>
>
I'll just post this again to try and keep the focus on the issue at hand.
========================Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff
done any testings
of how this will affect current users?
1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and
working.
2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port
3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes
How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and running?
Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how it'll
affect users.
You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come with;
it works for us hobbyists.
Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff?
You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you tested it?