On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:20 PM Matthew Macy <mmacy at freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:53 Ali <aliovx at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 06:54:54PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: > > > > Just in case anyone misses the change to UPDATING: > > > > > > > > 20180821: > > > > drm and drm2 have been removed. Users on powerpc, 32-bit > > > hardware, > > > > or with GPUs predating Radeon and i915 will need to install > the > > > > graphics/drm-legacy-kmod. All other users should be able to > use > > > > one of the LinuxKPI-based ports: graphics/drm-stable-kmod, > > > > graphics/drm-next-kmod, graphics/drm-devel-kmod. > > > > Note that this applies only to 12. > > > > > > I see that The removal of drm and drm2 has been reverted on svn. Could > > > you please kindly share the reasons behind the re-inclusion? > > > > > > > > > I can?t really give the blow by blow of internal project drama, but the > > gist of it is that ?best practices? (which are not yet actually > documented > > anywhere that I?ve seen) were not followed with regards to the > deprecation > > process. Warner and others believe that we can address the objectives of > > the drm removal (improving the user experience and communicating that > > drm/drm2 are _completely_ unsupported apart from continuing to compile) > > through less disruptive means. > > > > Just so. > > Our only continued frustration is that we were never given any guidance by > > RE or core on said ?best practices? when the discussion was taking place > in > > May and then those groups behaved as if this were a surprise when the > > removal happened. I?m cautiously optimistic that this well expedite > > improving communications on those matters. > > > > All the problems that are exposed by this aren't technical. This one is > social, but no less important. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current at freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe at freebsd.org" >I've been watching this debacle for quite some time now and I'd just like to ask why the rush? The graphics team is working very hard to destroy the stability of FreeBSD just so that they can force their uncooked work down users throats. The Linuxkpi is unstable at best, alpha level software that's constantly in need of someone to go and fix something on FreeBSD because Linux devs decided to make some changes or implement a new feature. This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM Goals - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux - Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) - Use kref - Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c - Use PCI API - Use Linux locking primitives is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go do that on Linux. Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing this in your spare time. If you cannot devote the resources to do something right then don't do it at all. Keep that stuff in to yourself or anyone crazy enough to follow those steps to get it up and running, you guys cannot expect to contaminate the entire FreeBSD project for this mess. This is nonsense and I hope that more people who see it as such would say so and stop having these guys forcing this crap; it's maintenance hell who will maintain it if they decide to leave? Best, Owen
On 8/24/18 4:07 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote:> This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM > Goals > > - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux > - > > Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) > - Use kref > - > > Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c > - Use PCI API > - Use Linux locking primitives > > is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go do > that on Linux.having a hard time not feeding the troll here...but what specifically is garbage.? as in, what implementation of all this work do you have available that has been developed independently which also enables support for modern desktop and portable systems that you can buy today?> Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing this > in your spare time.speaking as someone who's been working on this from pretty much the day of the initial CFT (maybe before?) - i don't know anyone who's getting paid for this specific work.? at least when it comes to GPU support.? but, if you have the means, I'd love to work on this full time and am open to any serious offers :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA
On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 07:07:24AM +0800, blubee blubeeme wrote:> Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing this > in your spare time.Let us know how whatever OS you wind up using instead works for you. I suggest you look for one that will put up with your constant harangues. There are very few people on the mailing lists as nasty and rude as yourself. It is tiresome, demotivating, and childish. Please go elsewhere. mcl
Hi Owen - I understand that you're enthusiastic and you just want what's best for the project. However, there's a couple of points I hope you'll take to heart. First, please read what you sent and think about the tone and word choice. It's extremely negative and critical - you're actively alienating people on the list. You're not going to be successful engaging any open source community or workplace if you choose to communicate like this. Second, this is a volunteer project. One needs to establish a track record of producing patches and working with developers to get them committed. Regardless of how sound your technical position is - you're going to have a hard time being acknowledged if there is no contribution to match. Best wishes. -M On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:07 PM blubee blubeeme <gurenchan at gmail.com> wrote:> > > On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:20 PM Matthew Macy <mmacy at freebsd.org> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:53 Ali <aliovx at gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 06:54:54PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: >> > > > Just in case anyone misses the change to UPDATING: >> > > > >> > > > 20180821: >> > > > drm and drm2 have been removed. Users on powerpc, 32-bit >> > > hardware, >> > > > or with GPUs predating Radeon and i915 will need to install >> the >> > > > graphics/drm-legacy-kmod. All other users should be able to >> use >> > > > one of the LinuxKPI-based ports: graphics/drm-stable-kmod, >> > > > graphics/drm-next-kmod, graphics/drm-devel-kmod. >> > > > Note that this applies only to 12. >> > > >> > > I see that The removal of drm and drm2 has been reverted on svn. Could >> > > you please kindly share the reasons behind the re-inclusion? >> > > >> > >> > >> > I can?t really give the blow by blow of internal project drama, but the >> > gist of it is that ?best practices? (which are not yet actually >> documented >> > anywhere that I?ve seen) were not followed with regards to the >> deprecation >> > process. Warner and others believe that we can address the objectives of >> > the drm removal (improving the user experience and communicating that >> > drm/drm2 are _completely_ unsupported apart from continuing to compile) >> > through less disruptive means. >> > >> >> Just so. >> >> Our only continued frustration is that we were never given any guidance by >> > RE or core on said ?best practices? when the discussion was taking >> place in >> > May and then those groups behaved as if this were a surprise when the >> > removal happened. I?m cautiously optimistic that this well expedite >> > improving communications on those matters. >> > >> >> All the problems that are exposed by this aren't technical. This one is >> social, but no less important. >> >> Warner >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current at freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe at freebsd.org >> " >> > > I've been watching this debacle for quite some time now and I'd just like > to ask why the rush? > > The graphics team is working very hard to destroy the stability of FreeBSD > just so that they can force their uncooked work down users throats. > > The Linuxkpi is unstable at best, alpha level software that's constantly > in need of someone to go and fix something on FreeBSD because Linux devs > decided to make some changes or implement a new feature. > > This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM > Goals > > - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux > - > > Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) > - Use kref > - > > Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c > - Use PCI API > - Use Linux locking primitives > > is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go do > that on Linux. > > Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing > this in your spare time. > > If you cannot devote the resources to do something right then don't do it > at all. > > Keep that stuff in to yourself or anyone crazy enough to follow those > steps to get it up and running, you guys cannot expect to contaminate the > entire FreeBSD project for this mess. > > This is nonsense and I hope that more people who see it as such would say > so and stop having these guys forcing this crap; it's maintenance hell who > will maintain it if they decide to leave? > > Best, > Owen > >