>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<<FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl The criteria for exception are: - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be deemed satisfy the "popular" requirement. - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. The full FCP-0101 is included below. -- Brooks --- authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> state: feedback --- # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before FreeBSD 13. ## Problem Statement Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to iflib, but each additional driver takes work. 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). ## Proposed Solution We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This will entail: - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes to FreeBSD 12. - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated devices. Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be deemed satisfy the "popular" requirement. - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) ### Exceptions to removal Device | Reason -------|------------------------------------------------- ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. dc | Popular device for CardBus card. hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. xl | Popular device for CardBus card. Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. ### Device to be removed ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe ## Final Disposition TBD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20181003/1519dd8a/attachment.sig>
On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote:> FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs are in fact 100.> and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack.Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly is the burden here? Another question: why the fuck FreeBSD likes to kill non-broken, low-volatile and perfectly working stuff? We offer probably the best NIC driver support on the block, yet you're proposing to shrink one of the few areas where we shine. WTF?!> The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xeae(4) was used in Asus EeePC 701/900 which are still popular among hackers. My home router uses sf(4) happily. It's a dual-port card and I don't want to look for expensive and completely needless replacement. Other people have already told you about ed/rl/etc.> Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list.As it can be seen this list tends to cover nearly all 100 cards, yet no one (pardon me if I missed those) asks for 10. So how about making this proposal cover only 10 cards, if you can't resist the itch to remove something from the tree? ./danfe
On 03/10/18 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote:> We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xePlease do not remove rl. I have two rl interfaces in a machine built in 2011 still in daily use. One rl interface is an aftermarket card bought new in *2016*. The other one is built into the motherboard. That's just the stuff I personally own. rl is in lots of machines which will probably still be running a decade from now. I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. -- J.
>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<<A few points of clarification: Rod correctly points out that this message makes it look like the FCP is a done deal as written. This is not the case and we welcome feedback on the entire proposal. IMO, soliciting input on the list of drivers along with the proposed process is a way to keep discussion concrete so we will proceed with both. It was asked: when does iflib conversion need to occur to save a driver? My proposed plan it to proceed with deprecation notices of otherwise unpopular drivers, but conversion can come in and remove those notices at and upto (or even after) removal from the tree. In an effort to save some email, we will be moving rl(4) to the list of drivers to STAY as it has proved itself to be popular. A few others appear to be well on their way so keep the reports coming. Thanks, Brooks P.S. As a person who has edited every driver in the tree multiple times in the last year (mostly in an external tree), I will consider this process successful even if we keep the majority of listed drivers in the tree. On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote:> >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBD-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Poul-Henning Kamp
2018-Oct-04 18:54 UTC
FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers
-------->FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md)Can I open a FCP to rename FCP to FBS (for FreeBSD BikeShed) ? Guys... most if not all of these emails could have been sent to directly Brooks without Cc'ing four mailing lists. Then Brooks could revise his tallies and scores to match informed reality and _then_ we could discuss if the criteria were sound on the list(s). Poul-Henning (singing an almost 20 year old refrain again) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk at FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no provision for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 as 11 doesn't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either category. -- Doug> On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> wrote: > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBD
> >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xeI have many hosts using ed & rl, several using ep, & at least one using xe or ex. That's just from memory, maybe other drivers in peril. Unless the functionality of drivers is sub-sumed in to other drivers, stripping all those drivers would motivate some to never upgrade again, or dump FreeBSD for a more conservative BSD, or fork FreeBSD etc. Stripping dead code helps developers play easier, but stripping live code is offensive. Some who periodicaly propose code demolitions forget that many users of FreeBSD don't subscribe lists, except maybe announce, as too busy, maintaining FreeBSD on networks ... until their nets don't work. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Brexit: 3,700,000 stolen votes in 1st referendum inc. 700,000 from Brits in EU Campaign lies & criminal funding, economy & pound down: New referendum needed. http://exitbrexit.uk
> On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> wrote: > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xesmc is found in the Arm models (simulators) [1]. I?ve seen it in the Foundation and Architecture Envelope Models. I assume it?s also in the other models, but don?t have a license for them to check. Andrew [1] https://developer.arm.com/products/system-design/fixed-virtual-platforms
04.10.2018 0:05, Brooks Davis ?????:>>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBDHello! My servers use rl and bfe devices from deprecated list. Also I have some ed devices for replacement failed adapters. Also I can try do convertion to iflib for bfe, rl and ed devices, but still no one not showed good example driver that has already been converted... P.S. So late, because I was away and just returned.
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 +0000 Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> wrote:> >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis <brooks at freebsd.org> > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBDWould it be possible to set a wiki page/section in 12 that display the current status of removal of those devices? That might be easier for people to look at their hardware actual state rather than try to trace every answer to this thread... Thanks a lot! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/attachments/20181017/727647d6/attachment.sig>