Dear All,
I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but
its just now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-)
I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get
your feedback on a license question. My goal is to develop commercial
software for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used
i.e. in academic institutions. Since I've been an academic software
developer for long, a priority for me is to make the data and tools
easily accessibly for other developers. I have toyed with the idea to
make a (free) R package that can very efficiently fetch data from the
database and push back results for visualization. To clarify: I am
not using R in my software. I'd rather like the institutions of my
customers to have open (internal) access to their data.
Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a
package (possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes,
would such a package automatically be infected by the GPL? If the
package links to (proprietary closed source) libraries to efficiently
access the data, would the libraries in turn be infected?
I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in
such a way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in
R. Obviously open source is the preferred way, but my understanding
is that also closed source extensions can add value and may be
welcome.
I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this
regard, or can shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C-
interface infectious per se, even when data flows only into R, not
vice versa? If its infectious, could just the very core of R be
licensed additionally under a non-infectious license?
Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example
by making only the package open source under a permissive license? Are
there any guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and
the R-world? I guess other people have tried this before, can someone
share his/her experience?
[1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html
All the best,
Mario Emmenlauer
I have no direct experience in this regard, but this FAQ seems to answer your
question.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL
I read this to mean that the answer may be different depending on whether your
code links against R libraries or simply uses R as an interpreter.
PS. "Infect" is an interesting choice of words in your email :)
--Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: R-devel [mailto:r-devel-bounces at r-project.org] On Behalf Of Mario
Emmenlauer
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 9:53 AM
To: r-devel at r-project.org
Subject: [Rd] non-infectious license for R package?
Dear All,
I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but its just
now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-)
I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get
your feedback on a license question. My goal is to develop commercial software
for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used i.e. in academic
institutions. Since I've been an academic software developer for long, a
priority for me is to make the data and tools easily accessibly for other
developers. I have toyed with the idea to make a (free) R package that can very
efficiently fetch data from the database and push back results for
visualization. To clarify: I am not using R in my software. I'd rather like
the institutions of my customers to have open (internal) access to their data.
Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a package
(possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes, would such a package
automatically be infected by the GPL? If the package links to (proprietary
closed source) libraries to efficiently access the data, would the libraries in
turn be infected?
I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in such a
way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in R. Obviously open
source is the preferred way, but my understanding is that also closed source
extensions can add value and may be welcome.
I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this regard, or can
shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C- interface infectious per se,
even when data flows only into R, not vice versa? If its infectious, could just
the very core of R be licensed additionally under a non-infectious license?
Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example by making
only the package open source under a permissive license? Are there any
guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and the R-world? I
guess other people have tried this before, can someone share his/her experience?
[1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html
All the best,
Mario Emmenlauer
______________________________________________
R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
See inline...> On Mar 24, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Mario Emmenlauer <mario at emmenlauer.de> wrote: > > > Dear All, > > I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but > its just now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-) > > I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get > your feedback on a license question.Hi, With the usual IANAL caveat and that I am not speaking on behalf of any other parties: The questions you are posing will require legal advice, so your desire above to not get legal advice is in direct conflict with what you actually need here. To your comments below, you cannot change existing licenses on software, R or otherwise. That is only something that the copyright holder(s) can do and you are not one of them. The GPL has a FAQ here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html> that you may find enlightening. A very general statement, which is that if your compiled code (in whatever language) does not "link" against R's libraries and does not directly contain GPL licensed code (e.g. copying and pasting R Foundation copyrighted source code into yours), that is one way to steer clear of the viral part of the GPL license vis-a-vis R, if you want to, but not the only way and not a guarantee either. There can be nuances, some of which are covered in the FAQ above. On the other hand, if your compiled code is linking to R's libraries, which you seem to suggest may be the case below, then your code, at least the relevant parts of it, will need to be licensed under a GPL compatible license. This again is part of the nuance, in terms of the scope of the impact on your code (all or parts) and where legal advice is needed, to steer clear of downstream potential issues that could result in legal and financial liabilities for you. The issue of linking to third party proprietary libraries is something that you will have to evaluate with respect to their licenses and any limitations that they may impose on your code and it's licensing. Since you seem to also be suggesting that you may use closed source components in your package, you should be aware, that vis-a-vis CRAN, you would not be able to submit your package for distribution via that channel, since CRAN submissions may not contain pre-compiled binaries or similar and the entire package must conform to a compatible open source license. Thus, if you go down that path, you would have to find other distribution channels for your package, such as a company web site, etc. None of the above should be construed as legal advice and if you plan to go down the path of offering a commercial service that you would charge clients for, a lawyer is mandatory to provide legal guidance and to assess your business risks. Even if your actual R related package is offered free of charge, while generating revenue through other means, if you should run afoul of software licensing requirements, that can still leave you open to financial liabilities and put your business and even personal assets at risk. Regards, Marc Schwartz> My goal is to develop commercial > software for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used > i.e. in academic institutions. Since I've been an academic software > developer for long, a priority for me is to make the data and tools > easily accessibly for other developers. I have toyed with the idea to > make a (free) R package that can very efficiently fetch data from the > database and push back results for visualization. To clarify: I am > not using R in my software. I'd rather like the institutions of my > customers to have open (internal) access to their data. > > Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a > package (possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes, > would such a package automatically be infected by the GPL? If the > package links to (proprietary closed source) libraries to efficiently > access the data, would the libraries in turn be infected? > > I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in > such a way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in > R. Obviously open source is the preferred way, but my understanding > is that also closed source extensions can add value and may be > welcome. > > I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this > regard, or can shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C- > interface infectious per se, even when data flows only into R, not > vice versa? If its infectious, could just the very core of R be > licensed additionally under a non-infectious license? > > Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example > by making only the package open source under a permissive license? Are > there any guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and > the R-world? I guess other people have tried this before, can someone > share his/her experience? > > [1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html > > All the best, > > Mario Emmenlauer >[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
My humble 2 nonlegal cents: There are multiple packages that make the link between R and proprietary software. One example is R2WinBUGS which connects to WinBUGS, but there are a lot more of these. All of these use essentially the same idea: - create the package under a standard GPL license - use the (command line) interface provided by the proprietary software to connect with it, eg by calls to sytem(). That's exaclty how R2WinBUGS operates. It doesn't contain a single closed source library to achieve this, all those are kept within WinBUGS itself. So taking the route others took before you seems the way forward to me. Cheers Joris On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Marc Schwartz <marc_schwartz at me.com> wrote:> See inline... > > > On Mar 24, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Mario Emmenlauer <mario at emmenlauer.de> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but > > its just now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-) > > > > I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get > > your feedback on a license question. > > > Hi, > > With the usual IANAL caveat and that I am not speaking on behalf of any > other parties: > > The questions you are posing will require legal advice, so your desire > above to not get legal advice is in direct conflict with what you actually > need here. > > To your comments below, you cannot change existing licenses on software, R > or otherwise. That is only something that the copyright holder(s) can do > and you are not one of them. > > The GPL has a FAQ here: > > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html < > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html> > > that you may find enlightening. > > A very general statement, which is that if your compiled code (in whatever > language) does not "link" against R's libraries and does not directly > contain GPL licensed code (e.g. copying and pasting R Foundation > copyrighted source code into yours), that is one way to steer clear of the > viral part of the GPL license vis-a-vis R, if you want to, but not the only > way and not a guarantee either. There can be nuances, some of which are > covered in the FAQ above. > > On the other hand, if your compiled code is linking to R's libraries, > which you seem to suggest may be the case below, then your code, at least > the relevant parts of it, will need to be licensed under a GPL compatible > license. > > This again is part of the nuance, in terms of the scope of the impact on > your code (all or parts) and where legal advice is needed, to steer clear > of downstream potential issues that could result in legal and financial > liabilities for you. > > The issue of linking to third party proprietary libraries is something > that you will have to evaluate with respect to their licenses and any > limitations that they may impose on your code and it's licensing. > > Since you seem to also be suggesting that you may use closed source > components in your package, you should be aware, that vis-a-vis CRAN, you > would not be able to submit your package for distribution via that channel, > since CRAN submissions may not contain pre-compiled binaries or similar and > the entire package must conform to a compatible open source license. Thus, > if you go down that path, you would have to find other distribution > channels for your package, such as a company web site, etc. > > None of the above should be construed as legal advice and if you plan to > go down the path of offering a commercial service that you would charge > clients for, a lawyer is mandatory to provide legal guidance and to assess > your business risks. Even if your actual R related package is offered free > of charge, while generating revenue through other means, if you should run > afoul of software licensing requirements, that can still leave you open to > financial liabilities and put your business and even personal assets at > risk. > > Regards, > > Marc Schwartz > > > > My goal is to develop commercial > > software for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used > > i.e. in academic institutions. Since I've been an academic software > > developer for long, a priority for me is to make the data and tools > > easily accessibly for other developers. I have toyed with the idea to > > make a (free) R package that can very efficiently fetch data from the > > database and push back results for visualization. To clarify: I am > > not using R in my software. I'd rather like the institutions of my > > customers to have open (internal) access to their data. > > > > Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a > > package (possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes, > > would such a package automatically be infected by the GPL? If the > > package links to (proprietary closed source) libraries to efficiently > > access the data, would the libraries in turn be infected? > > > > I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in > > such a way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in > > R. Obviously open source is the preferred way, but my understanding > > is that also closed source extensions can add value and may be > > welcome. > > > > I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this > > regard, or can shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C- > > interface infectious per se, even when data flows only into R, not > > vice versa? If its infectious, could just the very core of R be > > licensed additionally under a non-infectious license? > > > > Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example > > by making only the package open source under a permissive license? Are > > there any guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and > > the R-world? I guess other people have tried this before, can someone > > share his/her experience? > > > > [1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html > > > > All the best, > > > > Mario Emmenlauer > > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel >-- Joris Meys Statistical consultant Ghent University Faculty of Bioscience Engineering Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics tel : +32 (0)9 264 61 79 Joris.Meys at Ugent.be ------------------------------- Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
Have the lawyers look at Microsoft R, it seems the license is not very catching ultimately. Perhaps you could use a similar ruse, or even align to that project instead. Cheers, Mike On Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 00:54 Mario Emmenlauer <mario at emmenlauer.de> wrote:> > Dear All, > > I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but > its just now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-) > > I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get > your feedback on a license question. My goal is to develop commercial > software for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used > i.e. in academic institutions. Since I've been an academic software > developer for long, a priority for me is to make the data and tools > easily accessibly for other developers. I have toyed with the idea to > make a (free) R package that can very efficiently fetch data from the > database and push back results for visualization. To clarify: I am > not using R in my software. I'd rather like the institutions of my > customers to have open (internal) access to their data. > > Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a > package (possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes, > would such a package automatically be infected by the GPL? If the > package links to (proprietary closed source) libraries to efficiently > access the data, would the libraries in turn be infected? > > I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in > such a way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in > R. Obviously open source is the preferred way, but my understanding > is that also closed source extensions can add value and may be > welcome. > > I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this > regard, or can shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C- > interface infectious per se, even when data flows only into R, not > vice versa? If its infectious, could just the very core of R be > licensed additionally under a non-infectious license? > > Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example > by making only the package open source under a permissive license? Are > there any guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and > the R-world? I guess other people have tried this before, can someone > share his/her experience? > > [1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html > > All the best, > > Mario Emmenlauer > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel >-- Dr. Michael Sumner Software and Database Engineer Australian Antarctic Division 203 Channel Highway Kingston Tasmania 7050 Australia [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
Dear All, thanks a lot for all the quick and helpful responses! I'm currently interested in the "stance" of this community towards closed source contributions. The way I understand it, currently my options are quite limited: I would most likely need to use a remote procedure call API, and build one side of the API as GPL. But this would make the coupling much slower and more error-prone. I was actually hoping to give modellers very efficient access to big image analysis data (single cell results in multi-TB range). Currently R seems not easily combined with the classical closed-source company model. Are there considerations to release just the part that is required to build the interface to R under a more permissive license? All the best, Mario On 24.03.2017 15:44, Marc Schwartz wrote:> See inline... > >> On Mar 24, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Mario Emmenlauer <mario at emmenlauer.de >> <mailto:mario at emmenlauer.de>> wrote: >> >> >> Dear All, >> >> I've been following this mailing list for over three years now, but >> its just now that I have realized that R is licensed under GPL! :-) >> >> I'm not a lawyer and I don't want lawyer advice, but I'd like to get >> your feedback on a license question. > > > Hi, > > With the usual IANAL caveat and that I am not speaking on behalf of any other > parties: > > The questions you are posing will require legal advice, so your desire above to > not get legal advice is in direct conflict with what you actually need here. > > To your comments below, you cannot change existing licenses on software, R or > otherwise. That is only something that the copyright holder(s) can do and you > are not one of them. > > The GPL has a FAQ here: > > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html > > that you may find enlightening. > > A very general statement, which is that if your compiled code (in whatever > language) does not "link" against R's libraries and does not directly contain > GPL licensed code (e.g. copying and pasting R Foundation copyrighted source code > into yours), that is one way to steer clear of the viral part of the GPL license > vis-a-vis R, if you want to, but not the only way and not a guarantee either. > There can be nuances, some of which are covered in the FAQ above. > > On the other hand, if your compiled code is linking to R's libraries, which you > seem to suggest may be the case below, then your code, at least the relevant > parts of it, will need to be licensed under a GPL compatible license. > > This again is part of the nuance, in terms of the scope of the impact on your > code (all or parts) and where legal advice is needed, to steer clear of > downstream potential issues that could result in legal and financial liabilities > for you. > > The issue of linking to third party proprietary libraries is something that you > will have to evaluate with respect to their licenses and any limitations that > they may impose on your code and it's licensing. > > Since you seem to also be suggesting that you may use closed source components > in your package, you should be aware, that vis-a-vis CRAN, you would not be able > to submit your package for distribution via that channel, since CRAN submissions > may not contain pre-compiled binaries or similar and the entire package must > conform to a compatible open source license. Thus, if you go down that path, you > would have to find other distribution channels for your package, such as a > company web site, etc. > > None of the above should be construed as legal advice and if you plan to go down > the path of offering a commercial service that you would charge clients for, a > lawyer is mandatory to provide legal guidance and to assess your business risks. > Even if your actual R related package is offered free of charge, while > generating revenue through other means, if you should run afoul of software > licensing requirements, that can still leave you open to financial liabilities > and put your business and even personal assets at risk. > > Regards, > > Marc Schwartz > > >> My goal is to develop commercial >> software for image analysis of biomedical samples that may be used >> i.e. in academic institutions. Since I've been an academic software >> developer for long, a priority for me is to make the data and tools >> easily accessibly for other developers. I have toyed with the idea to >> make a (free) R package that can very efficiently fetch data from the >> database and push back results for visualization. To clarify: I am >> not using R in my software. I'd rather like the institutions of my >> customers to have open (internal) access to their data. >> >> Now for the question: To efficiently get the data into R, I assume a >> package (possibly in C or C++) is the most reasonable way? If yes, >> would such a package automatically be infected by the GPL? If the >> package links to (proprietary closed source) libraries to efficiently >> access the data, would the libraries in turn be infected? >> >> I'm asking this very naiively because I understand statement [1] in >> such a way that it is generally encouraged to make data available in >> R. Obviously open source is the preferred way, but my understanding >> is that also closed source extensions can add value and may be >> welcome. >> >> I was therefore hoping that somebody has prior experience in this >> regard, or can shed further light on statement [1]. Is the R-C- >> interface infectious per se, even when data flows only into R, not >> vice versa? If its infectious, could just the very core of R be >> licensed additionally under a non-infectious license? >> >> Furthermore, can I avoid infecting my full software stack, for example >> by making only the package open source under a permissive license? Are >> there any guidelines how to legally bridge between the proprietary and >> the R-world? I guess other people have tried this before, can someone >> share his/her experience? >> >> [1] https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2009-May/053248.html >> >> All the best, >> >> Mario Emmenlauer >>Viele Gruesse, Mario Emmenlauer -- BioDataAnalysis GmbH, Mario Emmenlauer Tel. Buero: +49-89-74677203 Balanstr. 43 mailto: memmenlauer * biodataanalysis.de D-81669 M?nchen http://www.biodataanalysis.de/