hello all! After having read http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html and listened to the examples on that very educational page, I decided to augment the info. This example is more simple, it involves the comparision between two streams of the same radio station, FranceInter (a station of Radio France in Paris). The ogg stream is running at around 30 kbps/11 kHz in stereo. The WMA stream (provided by yacast.fr) is running at 16 kbps/22 kHz in mono. The ogg stream is being encoded on an old Pentium 166 mmx (a HP Vectra, an office workstation from 1996). Yacast won't release any info on what they use, however, Windows 2000/XP won't even boot on an old Pentium 166 mmx. The stream url's: 1) the ogg stream: http://unix.rulez.org:8888/fr-inter.ogg <p>2) the WMA stream: mms://vip9.yacast.fr/encoderfranceinter/franceinter.asx (use aviplay if using Linux/*BSD) <p>FranceInter is mostly talk radio with some music programmes. For classical music, one can listen to "Carrefour de Lodéon" at 1500 UTC Monday to Friday and "Les Grands Concerts de Radio France" every Sunday at 2000 UTC. bonne écoute! (happy listening!) :) boink p.s. if you don't know what UTC is, please check on http://www.timeanddate.com p.s.s. my own notes are on http://cuba.calyx.nl/~oink/oggstreams/ -- je ne cherche pas, je trouve (Picasso) <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
hello, I like your point here .. it's difficult to make such a comparision, since yacast.fr choosed to stream like that. Why did they choose to stream like that? That's beyond me, since Radio France has a budjet of millions. The point of this comparision was to show why is Radio France doing and paying for something like this? Me, with cheap computers which were had no more value (well, they can't run Windows XP) could be used to do streaming and reliable streaming. This is only possible because of the open source work ... which shows that when creative thought is not stamped out by bureaucratic ineptitude or/and corruption, it can achieve the "impossible". I do feel that Radio France, since it is a public service, does have the duty not to waste money. This was also a point of my "comparision". boink. On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 09:19:18AM -0800, HJ wrote:> > --- boink <boink@tetter.xs4all.nl> wrote: > > The ogg stream is running at around 30 kbps/11 kHz in stereo. The > > WMA > > stream (provided by yacast.fr) is running at 16 kbps/22 kHz in > > mono. > > Is stereo vs. mono, and 22khz vs. 11khz even a fair comparison? > > 22khz vs. 11khz: 22khz, by definition, gives the 22khz stream much > more frequency range and *opportunity* to sound clearer. Yes, there > are more audible artifacts in the .wma than in the Vorbis stream, > but IMHO the sampling rate should match anyway. > > Stereo vs. mono is less of an issue, I think, but it can still wreak > havoc when trying to do an honest comparison. > > > Think: > * WMA stream: sounds 'clearer', but more artifacts, 1 channel, > 16kbps > * Vorbis stream: sounds 'cleaner' but not 'clearer', less > artifacts, 2 channels, 30kbps > > One might assume strange things based on bitrate, difference in > channels, and overlook or cry foul that the sampling rates are > different. > > > ~HJ > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.-- <p>je ne cherche pas, je trouve (Picasso) <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
--- boink <boink@tetter.xs4all.nl> wrote:> The ogg stream is running at around 30 kbps/11 kHz in stereo. The > WMA > stream (provided by yacast.fr) is running at 16 kbps/22 kHz in > mono.Is stereo vs. mono, and 22khz vs. 11khz even a fair comparison? 22khz vs. 11khz: 22khz, by definition, gives the 22khz stream much more frequency range and *opportunity* to sound clearer. Yes, there are more audible artifacts in the .wma than in the Vorbis stream, but IMHO the sampling rate should match anyway. Stereo vs. mono is less of an issue, I think, but it can still wreak havoc when trying to do an honest comparison. <p>Think: * WMA stream: sounds 'clearer', but more artifacts, 1 channel, 16kbps * Vorbis stream: sounds 'cleaner' but not 'clearer', less artifacts, 2 channels, 30kbps One might assume strange things based on bitrate, difference in channels, and overlook or cry foul that the sampling rates are different. <p>~HJ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.