If you remove the project files, I doubt it's going to make things easier for anyone. You'll probably just increase the number of questions as people struggle to compile using less common and less user-friendly methods, and someone is going to have to maintain that anyway. VS users want VS project files. Plenty of open-source projects provide them. It's not that hard. There's no way to get them up-to-date? That's ridiculous. All it takes is someone who knows Speex, knows the compiler, and has some motivation to do it. You just replied to two such people. Must you be that dismissive of their offers to help? Tom Jean-Marc Valin <jean-marc.valin at usherbrooke.ca> wrote:> > Hi, > > Is is possible to have makefiles, batchfiles, whatever that just calls > the command-line compilers and doesn't require this huge amount of > per-compiler-version crap? Otherwise, I'm seriously considering removing > all those project files from the build since time has proven there's > just no way to get them up-to-date. > > Jean-Marc > > Alexander Chemeris a ?crit : > > Hello, > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Kerry Bonin <kerry at vscape.com> wrote: > >> - Anyone else see this? > >> - Who maintains the Win32 projects (at least the VS2005)? I'd be happy > >> to work with to solve. > >> - If nobody is actively maintaining this build, I'd be glad to fix and > >> contribute back. > > > > I'm currently listed as a Win32 build system maintainer, but I prefer not > > to take discussions off the list. > > In my day-to-day development I use VS2003 and have VS2005 only on > > dedicated VM, and I havn't experienced any of these problems. Probably > > that's because VM is allowed to use only one core. I'd be glad to work > > with you on these problems and I'll ask my co-workers with VS2005 > > to test build on real hardware instead of VM. If you have any ideas > > or patches to solve this problem - post them here. > > > >> - On the SVN vs. GIT query above, are these still synched? We use SVN > >> for rest of project, so including via svn external is very convenient, > >> nice to know if valid... > > > > I think SVN version is now a little bit outdated. Though build system > > has not diverged too much yet. That's very sad Jean-Marc decided > > to drop SVN maintenance, it was very handy to use it in large > > svn-backed projects. > > > >> Just wanted to touch base with the list before I burnt time tracking > >> down Microsoft issues, in case there are any simpler fixes for this I > >> missed in mailing list archives and google... > > > > I believe you're the first to report these issues. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speex-dev mailing list > Speex-dev at xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev > >
Tom Grandgent a ?crit :> If you remove the project files, I doubt it's going to make things easier > for anyone. You'll probably just increase the number of questions as > people struggle to compile using less common and less user-friendly > methods, and someone is going to have to maintain that anyway.And how is having out-of-date project files help.> VS users want VS project files. Plenty of open-source projects provide > them. It's not that hard.It is. I have *one* set of autotools files (and by no means do I praise autotools) and they work got dozens of platforms, including x86/Linux, ARM, Blackfin, Mac, ... Yet, for the single platform that is Win32, I need half a dozen sets of files because of all compiler versions under the sun, it's just plain ridiculous.> There's no way to get them up-to-date? That's > ridiculous. All it takes is someone who knows Speex, knows the compiler, > and has some motivation to do it.And that's the problem. I've had several people "in charge" of maintaining the project files. They are still out-of-date at least half the time. I don't blame them -- lack of time, no access to some compiler versions, ... It's just a mess.> You just replied to two such people. > Must you be that dismissive of their offers to help?I don't dismiss their good intentions. I'm just saying it's so much of a mess that in the end, project files tend to be broken more often than not. That's why I'm asking for an alternative -- less painful -- method. Speex should be simple to build. A small shell script could do it if there's a command-line compiler. Jean-Marc> Tom > > Jean-Marc Valin <jean-marc.valin at usherbrooke.ca> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Is is possible to have makefiles, batchfiles, whatever that just calls >> the command-line compilers and doesn't require this huge amount of >> per-compiler-version crap? Otherwise, I'm seriously considering removing >> all those project files from the build since time has proven there's >> just no way to get them up-to-date. >> >> Jean-Marc >> >> Alexander Chemeris a ?crit : >>> Hello, >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Kerry Bonin <kerry at vscape.com> wrote: >>>> - Anyone else see this? >>>> - Who maintains the Win32 projects (at least the VS2005)? I'd be happy >>>> to work with to solve. >>>> - If nobody is actively maintaining this build, I'd be glad to fix and >>>> contribute back. >>> I'm currently listed as a Win32 build system maintainer, but I prefer not >>> to take discussions off the list. >>> In my day-to-day development I use VS2003 and have VS2005 only on >>> dedicated VM, and I havn't experienced any of these problems. Probably >>> that's because VM is allowed to use only one core. I'd be glad to work >>> with you on these problems and I'll ask my co-workers with VS2005 >>> to test build on real hardware instead of VM. If you have any ideas >>> or patches to solve this problem - post them here. >>> >>>> - On the SVN vs. GIT query above, are these still synched? We use SVN >>>> for rest of project, so including via svn external is very convenient, >>>> nice to know if valid... >>> I think SVN version is now a little bit outdated. Though build system >>> has not diverged too much yet. That's very sad Jean-Marc decided >>> to drop SVN maintenance, it was very handy to use it in large >>> svn-backed projects. >>> >>>> Just wanted to touch base with the list before I burnt time tracking >>>> down Microsoft issues, in case there are any simpler fixes for this I >>>> missed in mailing list archives and google... >>> I believe you're the first to report these issues. >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speex-dev mailing list >> Speex-dev at xiph.org >> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev >> >> > > >
Jean-Marc Valin wrote:> It is. I have *one* set of autotools files (and by no means do I praise > autotools) and they work got dozens of platforms, including x86/Linux, > ARM, Blackfin, Mac, ...With a tiny bit of tweaking they would also allow Linux to win32 cross compiling as well.> I don't dismiss their good intentions.Good intentions now and dropping off the radar 3 months from now is also completely useless.> That's why I'm asking for an alternative -- less painful -- method.Honestly, cross compiling from Linux is *the* most painless method :-). Erik -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo ----------------------------------------------------------------- "What lawyers call 'intellectual property' is -- as every Latin student knows -- no more than theft from the public domain." -- Andy Mueller-Maguhn, newly elected ICANN board member for Europe.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Jean-Marc Valin < jean-marc.valin at usherbrooke.ca> wrote:> Tom Grandgent a ?crit : > > If you remove the project files, I doubt it's going to make things easier > > for anyone. You'll probably just increase the number of questions as > > people struggle to compile using less common and less user-friendly > > methods, and someone is going to have to maintain that anyway. > > And how is having out-of-date project files help. > > > VS users want VS project files. Plenty of open-source projects provide > > them. It's not that hard. > > It is. I have *one* set of autotools files (and by no means do I praise > autotools) and they work got dozens of platforms, including x86/Linux, > ARM, Blackfin, Mac, ... Yet, for the single platform that is Win32, I > need half a dozen sets of files because of all compiler versions under > the sun, it's just plain ridiculous.That's why Alex and I have thought about a configure feature that produces visual studio project files... The thing is, visual studio is so complex, it's hard to abstract it out.> > There's no way to get them up-to-date? That's > > ridiculous. All it takes is someone who knows Speex, knows the compiler, > > and has some motivation to do it. > > And that's the problem. I've had several people "in charge" of > maintaining the project files. They are still out-of-date at least half > the time. I don't blame them -- lack of time, no access to some compiler > versions, ... It's just a mess. > > > You just replied to two such people. > > Must you be that dismissive of their offers to help? > > I don't dismiss their good intentions. I'm just saying it's so much of a > mess that in the end, project files tend to be broken more often than > not. That's why I'm asking for an alternative -- less painful -- method. > Speex should be simple to build. A small shell script could do it if > there's a command-line compiler.I definitely like the idea, but then there are many folks that want to integrate speex as a project build dependency in their visual studio projects.. I think that may be where things get tricky. And Alex has told me that visual studio-built projects cannot link with mingw-win32-gcc produced DLLs... *sigh* -- I was trying to push for getting a mingw build of our VOIP stuff (sipxtapi), but then Alex brought that up, and since many of the users of sipxtapi are on windows and want to integrate with their own visual-studio-built projects, it was not possible...> > > Jean-Marc > > > Tom > > > > Jean-Marc Valin <jean-marc.valin at usherbrooke.ca> wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Is is possible to have makefiles, batchfiles, whatever that just calls > >> the command-line compilers and doesn't require this huge amount of > >> per-compiler-version crap? Otherwise, I'm seriously considering removing > >> all those project files from the build since time has proven there's > >> just no way to get them up-to-date. > >> > >> Jean-Marc > >> > >> Alexander Chemeris a ?crit : > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Kerry Bonin <kerry at vscape.com> wrote: > >>>> - Anyone else see this? > >>>> - Who maintains the Win32 projects (at least the VS2005)? I'd be > happy > >>>> to work with to solve. > >>>> - If nobody is actively maintaining this build, I'd be glad to fix and > >>>> contribute back. > >>> I'm currently listed as a Win32 build system maintainer, but I prefer > not > >>> to take discussions off the list. > >>> In my day-to-day development I use VS2003 and have VS2005 only on > >>> dedicated VM, and I havn't experienced any of these problems. Probably > >>> that's because VM is allowed to use only one core. I'd be glad to work > >>> with you on these problems and I'll ask my co-workers with VS2005 > >>> to test build on real hardware instead of VM. If you have any ideas > >>> or patches to solve this problem - post them here. > >>> > >>>> - On the SVN vs. GIT query above, are these still synched? We use SVN > >>>> for rest of project, so including via svn external is very convenient, > >>>> nice to know if valid... > >>> I think SVN version is now a little bit outdated. Though build system > >>> has not diverged too much yet. That's very sad Jean-Marc decided > >>> to drop SVN maintenance, it was very handy to use it in large > >>> svn-backed projects. > >>> > >>>> Just wanted to touch base with the list before I burnt time tracking > >>>> down Microsoft issues, in case there are any simpler fixes for this I > >>>> missed in mailing list archives and google... > >>> I believe you're the first to report these issues. > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Speex-dev mailing list > >> Speex-dev at xiph.org > >> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev > >> > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speex-dev mailing list > Speex-dev at xiph.org > http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/speex-dev >-- Keith Kyzivat SIPez LLC. SIP VoIP, IM and Presence Consulting http://www.SIPez.com tel: +1 (617) 273-4000 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/speex-dev/attachments/20081002/ad8461fd/attachment.htm
Tom Grandgent wrote:> VS users want VS project files.Thats still not a good reason for Jean-Marc or any other non-VS user to give it to them. And which version of VS do you want support for? 2003? 2005? Something more recent? Something older?> Plenty of open-source projects provide them.Yes, but they are maintained by VS users, not by non-VS users like Jean-Marc. In all the projects I know of that do this, they are still constantly out of date.> It's not that hard.For VS users. For Jean-Marc who is not a VS user and does not have access to or interest in maintaining support for VS, it is infinitely difficult.> There's no way to get them up-to-date? That's > ridiculous. All it takes is someone who knows Speex, knows the compiler, > and has some motivation to do it. You just replied to two such people. > Must you be that dismissive of their offers to help?I have a little project that had the same kinds of offers and over many years, the VS project files continued to be poorly maintained. People would offer help and then disappear. This happened time after time and I had no control over it. In the end I decided that I do not support VS for my project. Nowadays, the only method I support for compiling my project for windows is to cross compile it from Linux and run the test suite under WINE (the windows emulator). I also release pre-compiled windows binaries. Anyone who wants to compile my project on windows themselves is free to do so however they want, but they shouldn't bother me about it. Erik -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Cunnilinugus and psychiatry brought us to this." -- Tony Soprano in HBO's "the Sopranos" -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Erik de Castro Lopo ----------------------------------------------------------------- "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -- Ernst Jan Plugge