On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:46:17PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:> On 02/05/2018 01:20 PM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > Why not use virtio-vsock to run the wayland protocol? I don't like > > > > the idea to duplicate something with very simliar functionality in > > > > virtio-gpu. > > > > > > The reason for abandoning that approach was the type of objects that > > > could be shared via virtio-vsock would be extremely limited. Besides > > > that being potentially confusing to users, it would mean from the > > > implementation side that either virtio-vsock would gain a dependency on > > > the drm subsystem, or an appropriate abstraction for shareable buffers > > > would need to be added for little gain. > > > > Well, no. The idea is that virtio-vsock and virtio-gpu are used largely > > as-is, without knowing about each other. The guest wayland proxy which > > does the buffer management talks to both devices. > > Note that the proxy won't know anything about buffers if clients opt-in for > zero-copy support (they allocate the buffers in a way that allows for > sharing with the host).Hmm? I'm assuming the wayland client (in the guest) talks to the wayland proxy, using the wayland protocol, like it would talk to a wayland display server. Buffers must be passed from client to server/proxy somehow, probably using fd passing, so where is the problem? Or did I misunderstand the role of the proxy?> > > > If you have a guest proxy anyway using virtio-sock for the protocol > > > > stream and virtio-gpu for buffer sharing (and some day 3d rendering > > > > too) should work fine I think. > > > > > > If I understand correctly your proposal, virtio-gpu would be used for > > > creating buffers that could be shared across domains, but something > > > equivalent to SCM_RIGHTS would still be needed in virtio-vsock? > > > > Yes, the proxy would send a reference to the buffer over virtio-vsock. > > I was more thinking about a struct specifying something like > > "ressource-id 42 on virtio-gpu-pci device in slot 1:23.0" instead of > > using SCM_RIGHTS. > > Can you extend on this? I'm having trouble figuring out how this could work > in a way that keeps protocol data together with the resources it refers to.Don't know much about the wayland protocol. Assuming you are passing buffers as file handles, together with some information what kind of buffer this is (sysv shm, dma-buf, ...). We have a proxy on both ends. One running in the guest, one on the host (be it qemu or some external one). So these two have to agree on how to pass buffers from one to the other. One way would be to have them talk a simple meta protocol to each other, with "here comes a chunk wayland protocol to pass along" and "here is a buffer mgmt message". Possibly it is better to extend the wayland protocol to also cover this new kind of buffer, so you don't need the meta protocol. The proxies would talk normal wayland protocol to the client (in the guest) and the server (on the host). They will have to transform the buffer into something they can pass along using the wayland protocol.> > > > What is the plan for the host side? I see basically two options. Either > > > > implement the host wayland proxy directly in qemu. Or > > > > implement it as separate process, which then needs some help from > > > > qemu to get access to the buffers. The later would allow qemu running > > > > independant from the desktop session. > > > > > > Regarding synchronizing buffers, this will stop becoming needed in > > > subsequent commits as all shared memory is allocated in the host and > > > mapped to the guest via KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION. > > > > --verbose please. The qemu patches linked from the cover letter not > > exactly helpful in understanding how all this is supposed to work. > > A client will allocate a buffer with DRM_VIRTGPU_RESOURCE_CREATE, export it > and pass the FD to the compositor (via the proxy). > > During resource creation, QEMU would allocate a shmem buffer and map it into > the guest with KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION.So the buffer magically shows up somewhere in the physical address space of the guest? That kind if magic usually isn't a very good idea.> When a FD comes from the compositor, QEMU mmaps it and maps that virtual > address to the guest via KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION. > > When the guest proxy reads from the winsrv socket, it will get a FD that > wraps the buffer referenced above. > > When the client reads from the guest proxy, it would get a FD that > references that same buffer and would mmap it. At that point, the client is > reading from the same physical pages where the compositor wrote to.Hmm. I allways assumed the wayland client allocates the buffers, not the server. Is that wrong? What is your plan for 3d acceleration support?> To be clear, I'm not against solving this via some form of restricted FD > passing in virtio-vsock, but Stefan (added to CC) thought that it would be > cleaner to do it all within virtio-gpu.Well, when targeting 3d acceleration it makes alot of sense to use virtio-gpu. And it makes sense to have 2d and 3d modes work as simliar as possible. That is not the direction you are taking with your proposal though ... If you don't plan for 3d support I'm wondering whenever virtio-gpu is a good pick. Mapping trickery aside, you wouldn't get linear buffers which can easily be shared between host and guest, because guest buffers are not required to be linear in guest physical memory. One copy will be needed, from (scattered) guest physical memory buffer to (linear) host buffer. One possible alternative would be to build on stdvga. It has a pci memory bar, it has a drm driver (bochs) which allows allocating drm buffers in that bar. They are linear buffers in both guest physical and host virtual memory. If we add an option to qemu to allocate the memory bar in sysv shared memory it can easily be exported to other processes on the host. The wayland client in the guest can map it directly too, it only needs to create a drm buffer and mmap it. You can get zero-copy without having to play mapping tricks. cheers, Gerd
On 02/05/2018 05:03 PM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:> On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:46:17PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On 02/05/2018 01:20 PM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>>>> Why not use virtio-vsock to run the wayland protocol? I don't like >>>>> the idea to duplicate something with very simliar functionality in >>>>> virtio-gpu. >>>> >>>> The reason for abandoning that approach was the type of objects that >>>> could be shared via virtio-vsock would be extremely limited. Besides >>>> that being potentially confusing to users, it would mean from the >>>> implementation side that either virtio-vsock would gain a dependency on >>>> the drm subsystem, or an appropriate abstraction for shareable buffers >>>> would need to be added for little gain. >>> >>> Well, no. The idea is that virtio-vsock and virtio-gpu are used largely >>> as-is, without knowing about each other. The guest wayland proxy which >>> does the buffer management talks to both devices. >> >> Note that the proxy won't know anything about buffers if clients opt-in for >> zero-copy support (they allocate the buffers in a way that allows for >> sharing with the host). > > Hmm? I'm assuming the wayland client (in the guest) talks to the > wayland proxy, using the wayland protocol, like it would talk to a > wayland display server. Buffers must be passed from client to > server/proxy somehow, probably using fd passing, so where is the > problem? > > Or did I misunderstand the role of the proxy?Hi Gerd, it's starting to look to me that we're talking a bit past the other, so I have pasted below a few words describing my current plan regarding the 3 key scenarios that I'm addressing. I mention below KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION, but I guess we can discuss alternatives such as the one you are proposing using PCI BARs at a later stage. I really think that whatever we come up with needs to support 3D clients as well. Creation of shareable buffer by guest ------------------------------------------------- 1. Client requests virtio driver to create a buffer suitable for sharing with host (DRM_VIRTGPU_RESOURCE_CREATE) 2. Virtio driver creates a new resource ID and passes the request to QEMU (VIRTIO_GPU_CMD_RESOURCE_CREATE_2D) 3. QEMU creates a shmem file (for example with mkostemp), associates that FD with the ID of this resource 4. QEMU maps that buffer to the guest's address space (KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION), passes the guest PFN to the virtio driver 5. DRM_VIRTGPU_RESOURCE_CREATE returns the resource id just created 6. Client mmaps it with DRM_IOCTL_VIRTGPU_MAP+mmap and can render to it 7. Gets a FD with DRM_IOCTL_PRIME_HANDLE_TO_FD that can be sent around Send of shareable buffer by guest --------------------------------------------- 1. Client sends the host a message that refers to this buffer, passing the FD using SCM_RIGHTS 2. Guest proxy passes the message (serialized data + FDs) on to the virtio driver responsable for winsrv support 3. virtio driver puts the data and the resource ids corresponding to the FDs in a virtqueue, kicks it 4. QEMU pops data+buffers from the virtqueue, looks up shmem FD for each resource, sends data + FDs to the compositor with SCM_RIGHTS Reception of buffer from the compositor ----------------------------------------------------- 1. QEMU reads from the socket and gets a FD via SCM_RIGHTS 2. QEMU mmaps the FD and maps the resulting pointer to the guest via KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION 3. QEMU sends the guest PFN along the presentation data to the virtio driver (VIRTIO_GPU_CMD_WINSRV_RX) 4. Virtio driver wraps a FD around that PFN, puts it in a queue 5. Guest proxy calls DRM_IOCTL_VIRTGPU_WINSRV_RX and gets data plus that FD 6. Guest proxy sends that data + FD to the client via SCM_RIGHTS 7. Client gets FD, mmaps it and reads the data from the compositor Thanks, Tomeu>>>>> If you have a guest proxy anyway using virtio-sock for the protocol >>>>> stream and virtio-gpu for buffer sharing (and some day 3d rendering >>>>> too) should work fine I think. >>>> >>>> If I understand correctly your proposal, virtio-gpu would be used for >>>> creating buffers that could be shared across domains, but something >>>> equivalent to SCM_RIGHTS would still be needed in virtio-vsock? >>> >>> Yes, the proxy would send a reference to the buffer over virtio-vsock. >>> I was more thinking about a struct specifying something like >>> "ressource-id 42 on virtio-gpu-pci device in slot 1:23.0" instead of >>> using SCM_RIGHTS. >> >> Can you extend on this? I'm having trouble figuring out how this could work >> in a way that keeps protocol data together with the resources it refers to. > > Don't know much about the wayland protocol. Assuming you are passing > buffers as file handles, together with some information what kind of > buffer this is (sysv shm, dma-buf, ...). > > We have a proxy on both ends. One running in the guest, one on the host > (be it qemu or some external one). So these two have to agree on how to > pass buffers from one to the other. One way would be to have them talk > a simple meta protocol to each other, with "here comes a chunk wayland > protocol to pass along" and "here is a buffer mgmt message". Possibly > it is better to extend the wayland protocol to also cover this new kind > of buffer, so you don't need the meta protocol. > > The proxies would talk normal wayland protocol to the client (in the > guest) and the server (on the host). They will have to transform the > buffer into something they can pass along using the wayland protocol. > >>>>> What is the plan for the host side? I see basically two options. Either >>>>> implement the host wayland proxy directly in qemu. Or >>>>> implement it as separate process, which then needs some help from >>>>> qemu to get access to the buffers. The later would allow qemu running >>>>> independant from the desktop session. >>>> >>>> Regarding synchronizing buffers, this will stop becoming needed in >>>> subsequent commits as all shared memory is allocated in the host and >>>> mapped to the guest via KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION. >>> >>> --verbose please. The qemu patches linked from the cover letter not >>> exactly helpful in understanding how all this is supposed to work. >> >> A client will allocate a buffer with DRM_VIRTGPU_RESOURCE_CREATE, export it >> and pass the FD to the compositor (via the proxy). >> >> During resource creation, QEMU would allocate a shmem buffer and map it into >> the guest with KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION. > > So the buffer magically shows up somewhere in the physical address space > of the guest? That kind if magic usually isn't a very good idea. > >> When a FD comes from the compositor, QEMU mmaps it and maps that virtual >> address to the guest via KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION. >> >> When the guest proxy reads from the winsrv socket, it will get a FD that >> wraps the buffer referenced above. >> >> When the client reads from the guest proxy, it would get a FD that >> references that same buffer and would mmap it. At that point, the client is >> reading from the same physical pages where the compositor wrote to. > > Hmm. I allways assumed the wayland client allocates the buffers, not > the server. Is that wrong? > > What is your plan for 3d acceleration support? > >> To be clear, I'm not against solving this via some form of restricted FD >> passing in virtio-vsock, but Stefan (added to CC) thought that it would be >> cleaner to do it all within virtio-gpu. > > Well, when targeting 3d acceleration it makes alot of sense to use > virtio-gpu. And it makes sense to have 2d and 3d modes work as simliar > as possible. That is not the direction you are taking with your > proposal though ... > > If you don't plan for 3d support I'm wondering whenever virtio-gpu is a > good pick. Mapping trickery aside, you wouldn't get linear buffers > which can easily be shared between host and guest, because guest buffers > are not required to be linear in guest physical memory. One copy will > be needed, from (scattered) guest physical memory buffer to (linear) > host buffer. > > One possible alternative would be to build on stdvga. It has a pci > memory bar, it has a drm driver (bochs) which allows allocating drm > buffers in that bar. They are linear buffers in both guest physical and > host virtual memory. If we add an option to qemu to allocate the memory > bar in sysv shared memory it can easily be exported to other processes > on the host. The wayland client in the guest can map it directly too, > it only needs to create a drm buffer and mmap it. You can get zero-copy > without having to play mapping tricks. > > cheers, > Gerd > >
Hi,> > Hmm? I'm assuming the wayland client (in the guest) talks to the > > wayland proxy, using the wayland protocol, like it would talk to a > > wayland display server. Buffers must be passed from client to > > server/proxy somehow, probably using fd passing, so where is the > > problem? > > > > Or did I misunderstand the role of the proxy? > > Hi Gerd, > > it's starting to look to me that we're talking a bit past the other, so I > have pasted below a few words describing my current plan regarding the 3 key > scenarios that I'm addressing.You are describing the details, but I'm missing the big picture ... So, virtualization aside, how do buffers work in wayland? As far I know it goes like this: (a) software rendering: client allocates shared memory buffer, renders into it, then passes a file handle for that shmem block together with some meta data (size, format, ...) to the wayland server. (b) gpu rendering: client opens a render node, allocates a buffer, asks the cpu to renders into it, exports the buffer as dma-buf (DRM_IOCTL_PRIME_HANDLE_TO_FD), passes this to the wayland server (again including meta data of course). Is that correct? Now, with virtualization added to the mix it becomes a bit more complicated. Client and server are unmodified. The client talks to the guest proxy (wayland protocol). The guest proxy talks to the host proxy (protocol to be defined). The host proxy talks to the server (wayland protocol). Buffers must be managed along the way, and we want avoid copying around the buffers. The host proxy could be implemented directly in qemu, or as separate process which cooperates with qemu for buffer management. Fine so far?> I really think that whatever we come up with needs to support 3D clients as > well.Lets start with 3d clients, I think these are easier. They simply use virtio-gpu for 3d rendering as usual. When they are done the rendered buffer already lives in a host drm buffer (because virgl runs the actual rendering on the host gpu). So the client passes the dma-buf to the guest proxy, the guest proxy imports it to look up the resource-id, passes the resource-id to the host proxy, the host proxy looks up the drm buffer and exports it as dma-buf, then passes it to the server. Done, without any extra data copies.> Creation of shareable buffer by guest > ------------------------------------------------- > > 1. Client requests virtio driver to create a buffer suitable for sharing > with host (DRM_VIRTGPU_RESOURCE_CREATE)client or guest proxy?> 4. QEMU maps that buffer to the guest's address space > (KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION), passes the guest PFN to the virtio driverThat part is problematic. The host can't simply allocate something in the physical address space, because most physical address space management is done by the guest. All pci bars are mapped by the guest firmware for example (or by the guest OS in case of hotplug).> 4. QEMU pops data+buffers from the virtqueue, looks up shmem FD for each > resource, sends data + FDs to the compositor with SCM_RIGHTSBTW: Is there a 1:1 relationship between buffers and shmem blocks? Or does the wayland protocol allow for offsets in buffer meta data, so you can place multiple buffers in a single shmem block? cheers, Gerd
On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:03:22 +0100 Gerd Hoffmann <kraxel at redhat.com> wrote:> On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:46:17PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > > On 02/05/2018 01:20 PM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > Hmm. I allways assumed the wayland client allocates the buffers, not > the server. Is that wrong?Hi Gerd, a fly-by comment here: The standard operation mode on Wayland indeed is that the client allocates any pixel buffers. It is not the whole story though. Server allocated buffers passed to a client also exist: - core protocol uses this to pass keymaps to clients - people are not forbidden from writing Wayland extensions that do this for whatever reason The latter server-allocated case could probably be overlooked, but the keymap case not really. Furthermore, copy&paste and drag&drop protocol pass pipe file descriptors via Wayland to establish client-to-client pipes. Thanks, pq -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/virtualization/attachments/20180206/280cafa4/attachment.sig>
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