Ted Kremenek
2014-Jun-11 00:44 UTC
[LLVMdev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström <cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote:> On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: >> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** >> >> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional engineers to work on the Swift programming language: > Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift be open source?At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question.
Chandler Carruth
2014-Jun-11 13:39 UTC
[LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Ted Kremenek <kremenek at apple.com> wrote:> On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström <cbergstrom at pathscale.com> > wrote: > > > On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: > >> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** > >> > >> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional engineers to > work on the Swift programming language: > > Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift be open > source? > > At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question.Ted, we've routinely pushed back strongly against job postings for compiler jobs that aren't specifically working on LLVM, Clang, or some other part of the LLVM project. If Swift ends up open source, and if it ends up as part of the LLVM project (neither of which seem clear as you say), only then would it seem appropriate to send this kind of job ad email to these lists. This is the second off-topic job posting in the last few weeks, so I'm particularly sensitive. I really don't want the lists to become cluttered here. Thanks, -Chandler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20140611/d798bbf2/attachment.html>
Joerg Sonnenberger
2014-Jun-11 14:03 UTC
[LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 02:39:08PM +0100, Chandler Carruth wrote:> Ted, we've routinely pushed back strongly against job postings for compiler > jobs that aren't specifically working on LLVM, Clang, or some other part of > the LLVM project.At the very least, the mail didn't make it clear that Swift is a project on top of LLVM. Not everyone went to the Apple house conference and knows it. Joerg
John Criswell
2014-Jun-11 14:59 UTC
[LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
Dear All, Historically, we *have* permitted job announcements for jobs that require or desire expertise with LLVM or one of it's sub-projects. To the best of my knowledge, we've never required that the position announcement state that the job will contribute directly to the LLVM project (or its sub-projects) or that the code created by the position be open source. As an example, please see http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2014-May/072938.html and http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2010-August/033695.html. Using this criteria, I believe that Ted's post is on-topic (although I agree that it should have stated the connection with LLVM more prominently). If there is now an official policy that I've overlooked stating otherwise, please let me know. Regards, John Criswell On 6/11/14, 8:39 AM, Chandler Carruth wrote:> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Ted Kremenek <kremenek at apple.com > <mailto:kremenek at apple.com>> wrote: > > On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström > <cbergstrom at pathscale.com <mailto:cbergstrom at pathscale.com>> wrote: > > > On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: > >> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** > >> > >> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional > engineers to work on the Swift programming language: > > Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift > be open source? > > At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question. > > > Ted, we've routinely pushed back strongly against job postings for > compiler jobs that aren't specifically working on LLVM, Clang, or some > other part of the LLVM project. > > If Swift ends up open source, and if it ends up as part of the LLVM > project (neither of which seem clear as you say), only then would it > seem appropriate to send this kind of job ad email to these lists. > > This is the second off-topic job posting in the last few weeks, so I'm > particularly sensitive. I really don't want the lists to become > cluttered here. > > Thanks, > -Chandler > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20140611/42a39542/attachment.html>
"C. Bergström"
2014-Jun-11 15:07 UTC
[LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
On 06/11/14 08:39 PM, Chandler Carruth wrote:> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Ted Kremenek <kremenek at apple.com > <mailto:kremenek at apple.com>> wrote: > > On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström > <cbergstrom at pathscale.com <mailto:cbergstrom at pathscale.com>> wrote: > > > On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: > >> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** > >> > >> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional > engineers to work on the Swift programming language: > > Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift > be open source? > > At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question. > > > Ted, we've routinely pushed back strongly against job postings for > compiler jobs that aren't specifically working on LLVM, Clang, or some > other part of the LLVM project. > > If Swift ends up open source, and if it ends up as part of the LLVM > project (neither of which seem clear as you say), only then would it > seem appropriate to send this kind of job ad email to these lists. > > This is the second off-topic job posting in the last few weeks, so I'm > particularly sensitive. I really don't want the lists to become > cluttered here.In the past myself and others have posted clang related jobs which aren't open source. I don't think that should be a strict requirement and sorry for the noise my question brought up.
Adam Treat
2014-Jun-11 15:56 UTC
[LLVMdev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
That is surprising since Swift has reportedly been in development for a number of years internally. Apple has a long history with Open Source including this very project. You had to know that this question was going to be asked very quickly after the announcement. Given that you don't have an answer even now I would tend to be pessimistic... On 06/10/2014 08:44 PM, Ted Kremenek wrote:> On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström <cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote: > >> On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: >>> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** >>> >>> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional engineers to work on the Swift programming language: >> Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift be open source? > At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question. > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev
"C. Bergström"
2014-Jun-11 17:17 UTC
[LLVMdev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
On 06/11/14 10:56 PM, Adam Treat wrote:> That is surprising since Swift has reportedly been in development for > a number of years internally. Apple has a long history with Open > Source including this very project. You had to know that this > question was going to be asked very quickly after the announcement. > Given that you don't have an answer even now I would tend to be > pessimistic...I wouldn't be pessimistic so quickly - Remember that most likely the engineers were just focused on the technical side and maybe didn't even have a chance to look about getting it pushed publicly. Even though Lattner has a lot of influence at Apple - there are tall legal hurdles for large public companies. If it gets enough developer adoption - I'm sure someone (from Apple or community) will eventually start to contribute patches upstream to clang.
Chris Lattner
2014-Jun-11 17:57 UTC
[LLVMdev] [cfe-dev] [ADVERTISEMENT] open positions in Apple's Swift compiler team
Guys, feel free to make up your own dragons if you want, but your speculation is just that: speculation. We literally have not even discussed this yet, because we have a ton of work to do to respond to the huge volume of feedback we're getting, and have to get a huge number of things (e.g. access control!) done before the 1.0 release this fall. You can imagine that many of us want it to be open source and part of llvm, but the discussion hasn't happened yet, and won't for some time. Sorry to leave you all hanging, but there is just far too much to deal with right now. -Chris> On Jun 11, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Adam Treat <adam.treat at samsung.com> wrote: > That is surprising since Swift has reportedly been in development for a number of years internally. Apple has a long history with Open Source including this very project. You had to know that this question was going to be asked very quickly after the announcement. Given that you don't have an answer even now I would tend to be pessimistic... > > On 06/10/2014 08:44 PM, Ted Kremenek wrote: >> On Jun 10, 2014, at 5:36 PM, C. Bergström <cbergstrom at pathscale.com> wrote: >> >>> On 06/11/14 06:58 AM, Ted Kremenek wrote: >>>> ** NOTE: This is a compiler job announcement. ** >>>> >>>> The Apple Source Languages team is looking for exceptional engineers to work on the Swift programming language: >>> Maybe this has been asked already and I missed it - Will Swift be open source? >> At this time, we honestly don't know the answer yet to that question. >> _______________________________________________ >> LLVM Developers mailing list >> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev > > _______________________________________________ > cfe-dev mailing list > cfe-dev at cs.uiuc.edu > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
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